DCP lashes out at critics of proxy baptism for S. Wiesenthal

[_Mister Scratch]

I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor.

Isn't there something in the Bible about the jawbone of an ass?

Yes. Samson used an ass's jawbone to slay the Philistines. Frankly, Monitor, I don't think I need the jawbone in order to do battle with such "philistines" as these. ; )

[_MormonMendacity]

It just gets worse and worse, doesn't it? Not only are proxy baptisms offensive to certain people, but the whole process, according to DCP, is sloppily, embarrassingly out of control. A complete mess, as it were.

And it just gets better and better. It appears that DCP must be bellowing the Masonic call for help -- one of his FARMS buddies, David Bokovoy, has now posted a comment in DCP's defense, but he's just making it worse.

I agree. His post didn't help matters by claiming...

Given my familiarity with the Jewish community, I suspect that when properly understood, most Jews would assume a position regarding this LDS ritual closer to the one advocated by Krister Stendahl (retired Bishop of Stockholm and professor emeritus of theology at Harvard) who openly referred to this LDS practice with “holy envy.”

I think we can chalk that one up to "Your feelings don't count."

[_Who Knows]

The Church cannot realistically be expected to control what individual members do in terms of submitting names for temple work. It can control what information it offers and encourage or discourage certain things, but it cannot systematically patrol all name-submissions to make sure that they're not Jewish or that those who bore the names didn't spend time in a concentration camp.

If they can't control and monitor the information, they shouldn't be doing these proxy ordinances. It's as simple as that. Additionally, they shouldn't promise to do something they can't follow through on - ie., promise to stop the ordinances for holocaust victims, knowing full well that they can't follow through with it.

[_Runtu]

The Church cannot realistically be expected to control what individual members do in terms of submitting names for temple work. It can control what information it offers and encourage or discourage certain things, but it cannot systematically patrol all name-submissions to make sure that they're not Jewish or that those who bore the names didn't spend time in a concentration camp.

If they can't control and monitor the information, they shouldn't be doing these proxy ordinances. It's as simple as that. Additionally, they shouldn't promise to do something they can't follow through on - ie., promise to stop the ordinances for holocaust victims, knowing full well that they can't follow through with it.

I would imagine the church, if they are aware of DCP's "defense," would hope that it goes no farther than the blog comments. But the problem is that DCP is right in one way: Helen Radke really does seem to have it in for the church, so I wouldn't be surprised to see her publicize Dan's comments more broadly. I almost feel bad for him because I really think he entered apologist mode without thinking about it, whereas with a little more thought, he might have been more conciliatory. But, yes, he did dig himself quite a hole.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

DCP's latest two posts over there blame this whole dispute on ex-Mormons who are trying to stir the pot; he's also trying to resurrect his professional credentials.

[_Runtu]

DCP's latest two posts over there blame this whole dispute on ex-Mormons who are trying to stir the pot; he's also trying to resurrect his professional credentials.

Maybe this is terrible, but I've been feeling just the slightest twinge of schadenfreude about this.

[_Mister Scratch]

DCP's latest two posts over there blame this whole dispute on ex-Mormons who are trying to stir the pot; he's also trying to resurrect his professional credentials.

I am aghast at this whole fiasco. Here is DCP's "credential" post (and let's not forget his early reminder to all that Jews have few friends in the world:

In that light, incidentally, it occurs to me that, since my place of employment has been raised and since I've noted in response that I'm an Arabist, it might also be worthwhile (in order to better identify myself now that I have been made an issue here) to point out that I'm also the editor-in-chief of an on-going series of dual-language publications of the Medical Works of Moses Maimonides, distributed through the University of Chicago Press.

I think, further, that it is both weird and paradoxical that he is claiming that he speaks "only for himself," and yet is tossing out nuggets such as this:

I assume that Jews who are concerned about this matter are, overwhelmingly, sincere people of genuine good will. I can assure them that faithful Mormons are, too.

(emphasis added)

Or this:

And, finally, I (for one) don't for a moment discount the pain, anger, irritation, outrage, etc., that at least some in the Jewish community may feel over this issue. Nor, so far as I can tell, do the leaders of my church, who are sincere and well-intentioned people.

(emphasis added)

Is he reading minds here? Or is he going back on what he said, and actually trying to speak for others? All in all, a deeply disappointing performance on the part of Prof. P.

[_Monitor]

Has DCP ever NOT disappointed and appalled you pathetic little people?

You follow him around panting, slobbering, and complaining all the time. Get a life.

[_Mister Scratch]

I guess Professor Peterson is "bailing out," as he has just posted this:

I think, though, that I need to apologize to any real Jews who may be watching this increasingly undignified spectacle. Intelligent discussion of this topic is possible, and I can promise that most if not all believing Mormons will listen carefully and with considerable sympathy to Jewish concerns. But, given the crowd who've actually shown up here, the chances for such a conversation seem to be vanishingly small on this thread.

Such discussion would probably best be conducted face to face, in any event.

(emphasis added)

So, he winds up by saying, once again, that he speaks for "most, if not all believing Mormons," and also by apologizing to "any real Jews." (What a weird way to put it...) Of course, one can only guess as to what it is he's apologizing for. Could it be his uncouth remark that Jews have "few friends in the world"? We may never know.

[_Mister Scratch]

Has DCP ever NOT disappointed and appalled you pathetic little people?

You follow him around panting, slobbering, and complaining all the time. Get a life.

Plutarch? Is that you?