Contradictory teachings

[_Jason Bourne]

I'm going to take one, and just one point brought up here, because th answer, theologically speaking, is fairly straightforward. How could Jesus be a god before he came to this earth when men (and woman, Harmony clevery left that out as usual) can become God's only by undergoing a mortal probation.

Well, a cursory purusal of the New Testament will quickly demonstrat that, although Jesus was a god before he came here, he did not have a fullness or completeness of godhood until after his resurrection. Further, LDS docrtine and philosophy has always had a clearly developed understanding of the nature of eternal progression within which God's children can attain extremely high levels of power, authority, knowledge, and intellegence in the preexistence, which the mortal probation then serves to fulfill and complete. Eacn of us, because of our uses of agencey in the premortal world, comes to this world with different talents, diffeent bias and predispositons, and at different levels of preexostent development.

The term "God" is also a relative term. There is a fullness of godhood, but relative to beings of a much lower sphere of intellegence or knowledge, other beings may be as "gods" to them in the sense of comparison and contrast. Hence, while Jesus Christ has all power in earth and heaven, and has a fullness, any number of angels or othe heavenly beings, such as, for example, Adam, would be as gods in realtion to us, that is, godlike in their attributes, power, and intelligence.

Christ is Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament. Christ is the one who created this earth. It boggles the mind that you somehow think he was a God-in-training. Try again.

Actually Loran has come valid points and I do not think he called Jesus a God in training. The New Testament teaches that Christ did not have a fullness, at least in mortality but gained from grace to grace. At the same time we read that he emptied himself of his Godhood to be man like us, and did not think it wrong to be equal with God. Never the less Jesus was God before this life and perhaps, if a body is necessary to be experience the fullness of being God, then still had to experience and earth life. in my opinion this does nothing to reduce Him from being God before this life nor do I view it contradictory with LDS theology at all.

[_Gazelam]

Mosiah 15: 1-8

1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall bcome down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, suffereth temptation, and yieldeth not to the temptation, but suffereth himself to be mocked, and scourged, and cast out, and disowned by his people.
6 And after all this, after working many mighty miracles among the children of men, he shall be led, yea, even aas Isaiah said, as a sheep before the shearer is dumb, so he opened not his mouth.
7 Yea, even so he shall be led, crucified, and slain, the flesh becoming subject even unto death, the will of the Son being swallowed up in the will of the Father.
8 And thus God breaketh the bands of death, having gained the victory over death; giving the Son power to make intercession for the children of men—

The Son acts for and in behalf of the Father through what is known as Divine Investiture of Authority It should be understood that upon their creation people are different.

D&C 93:29-31

29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.
31 Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man; because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them, and they receive not the light.

All of us are as old as the Father. The difference being when our intelligence was organized. The Father seeks to teach all of us how to be as he is. Christ accomplished this in all ways other than receiving a physical body, and thus was given authority over his siblings.

Abr.3: 22-25

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;
25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

Besides Christ, others were also given authority. These positions were based on obedience to eternal principles. Christ from the beginning was like his Father, and was thus endowed with equal authority, his words becoming the Fathers words.

This privilage is made available to all those who take upon themselves the name of Christ and emulate his words and deeds.

Gaz

[_ozemc]

All of us are as old as the Father. The difference being when our intelligence was organized.
Gaz

So, God is not timeless?

You mean, if I had the good fortune to have my intelligence organized first (whatever that is supposed to mean), I would be God?

[_asbestosman]

I wouldn't call this a contradiction, but it's interesting that the church buildings have no crosses and the members don't wear them. However, the cross does play a very important role in some ordinances.

[_MormonMendacity]

I wouldn't call this a contradiction, but it's interesting that the church buildings have no crosses and the members don't wear them. However, the cross does play a very important role in some ordinances.

What role in which ordinances?

[_asbestosman]

I wouldn't call this a contradiction, but it's interesting that the church buildings have no crosses and the members don't wear them. However, the cross does play a very important role in some ordinances.

What role in which ordinances?

Think temple. 'nuff said (and hopefully not too much).

[_MormonMendacity]

I wouldn't call this a contradiction, but it's interesting that the church buildings have no crosses and the members don't wear them. However, the cross does play a very important role in some ordinances.

What role in which ordinances?

Think temple. 'nuff said (and hopefully not too much).

Oh...got it. Boy...now THAT would be a good discussion for those who wanted to have it. You sure don't hear much about those things in Sac meeting, do ya!

Secret Mormon cross ritual -- kinda'.

[_asbestosman]

Oh...got it. Boy...now THAT would be a good discussion for those who wanted to have it. You sure don't hear much about those things in Sac meeting, do ya!

Actually my parents, who are more zealous TBM than I am, brought it up to me one time. Of course, we didn't have an in-depth discussion about it. If I were to go in that direction (which I won't), I might point out there are some interesting things I have discovered about it in the scriptures as well as my own thoughts. In any case it would be difficult for me to discuss this without breaking my promise not to discolse the actual thing involved. It's a pity too although I recently gave a talk in sacrament meeting where I made an interesting reference to an aspect of this which allowed those in the know to connect a few dots while still being fairly vague. Search the scriptures, and maybe you'll find it (and others) too.

[_harmony]

Search the scriptures, and maybe you'll find it (and others) too.

Why? The temple endowment ceremony isn't in the scriptures. It's origins are not scriptorial.

[_Coggins7]

Why? The temple endowment ceremony isn't in the scriptures. It's origins are not scriptorial.

And they need not be, as long as there are living oracles and continuing revelation. May I see your Mormon credentials again Harmony? I'd prefer at least two forms of ID and a ZCMI credit card...


Loran