Funerals to be used primarily as preaching opportunities.

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_Jason Bourne
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Re: Funerals to be used primarily as preaching opportunities

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Runtu wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:In my experience most people, when plannig funerals, routinely ignore Elder Packer's remarks. I think a balance is good. Talk about the loved one, eulogize and offer gospel messaged that buring comfort.


I agree. That's been my experience, as well.


Oh no, you must be rather wrong as Vegas it the real authority here.



Of course, what does it say about Packer's remarks when the best response is "Oh, well, most people ignore it"?


There have been many things that Elder Packer has said or written that I have quite liked. However, his rigidity on things like this, his comments about faithful history and his apparent meaness in much of what he says and does has not been something I appreciate. in my opinion his remarks are rather harsh and insensative.
_Mercury
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Re: Funerals to be used primarily as preaching opportunities

Post by _Mercury »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Runtu wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:In my experience most people, when plannig funerals, routinely ignore Elder Packer's remarks. I think a balance is good. Talk about the loved one, eulogize and offer gospel messaged that buring comfort.


I agree. That's been my experience, as well.


Oh no, you must be rather wrong as Vegas it the real authority here.



Of course, what does it say about Packer's remarks when the best response is "Oh, well, most people ignore it"?


There have been many things that Elder Packer has said or written that I have quite liked. However, his rigidity on things like this, his comments about faithful history and his apparent meaness in much of what he says and does has not been something I appreciate. in my opinion his remarks are rather harsh and insensative.


Don't tell your bishop that lest you be labeled as kicking against the PRICKS. Packer speaks for god and your supposed to shut up and do what he says!
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_Jason Bourne
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Re: Funerals to be used primarily as preaching opportunities

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Yes, i forgot that my anger precludes me from speaking rationally. I guess those holocaust deniers speak the truth as well.



Oh poor little you. I highly doubt your angst and hurt from the big bad LDS wolf ranks anywhere near the things a holocuast victim went through. Were I you I would be embarrased to even compare your poor pitiful perceived batrayel as anything like the holcuast victim syndrom at all.

I've been to 17-20 LDS funerals. They all were opportunities for the stalwart mo's to preach to the wavering family members and framed the ceremony in typical LDS fashion, relegating the persons life acomplishments to Mormon acomplishments, etc. Ind eath they are not remembered as a person but a cog in the Mormon machine.


I have been to more and my experience is much different and Runtu's apparently has been as well.

Jason, you (probably unconsciously) change your perception of events in order to fit your argument.


So now you are my therapist? Physician, heal thyself.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Funerals to be used primarily as preaching opportunities

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Don't tell your bishop that lest you be labeled as kicking against the PRICKS. Packer speaks for god and your supposed to shut up and do what he says!


Are you having fun yet?
_Mercury
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Re: Funerals to be used primarily as preaching opportunities

Post by _Mercury »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Jason, you (probably unconsciously) change your perception of events in order to fit your argument.


So now you are my therapist? Physician, heal thyself.


No, im no therapist, just making an observation concerning your behavior. Your a moderate in the Mormon world and you see things as a moderate, ignoring the facts around you. Your filtering out the negative. Why don't you use the negative you see to actually change your life instead of using the positive to rationalize a way of life that is different than what you want?

As the church falls deeper and deeper into marginalization they will come looking for you. Tehy will hurt your family as they have hurt mine through emotional manipulation.

Your not like me Jason, but you will eventually have to confront your distaste for the irrational nature of Mormonism as they demand total allegiance.
And crawling on the planet's face
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And lost in space...and meaning
_Mercury
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Re: Funerals to be used primarily as preaching opportunities

Post by _Mercury »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Don't tell your bishop that lest you be labeled as kicking against the PRICKS. Packer speaks for god and your supposed to shut up and do what he says!


Are you having fun yet?


Most certainly
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Funerals to be used primarily as preaching opportunities

Post by _Jason Bourne »

No, im no therapist, just making an observation concerning your behavior. Your a moderate in the Mormon world and you see things as a moderate, ignoring the facts around you. Your filtering out the negative.


No I know this issue exists I just have seen it little in practice and when I have had input I have certainly ignored it.


Why don't you use the negative you see to actually change your life instead of using the positive to rationalize a way of life that is different than what you want?


I am quite happy where I am right now thank you.

As the church falls deeper and deeper into marginalization they will come looking for you. Tehy will hurt your family as they have hurt mine through emotional manipulation.


How so?

Your not like me Jason, but you will eventually have to confront your distaste for the irrational nature of Mormonism as they demand total allegiance.


Perhaps.
_Yoda

Re: Funerals to be used primarily as preaching opportunities

Post by _Yoda »

VegasRefugee wrote:No, im no therapist, just making an observation concerning your behavior. Your a moderate in the Mormon world and you see things as a moderate, ignoring the facts around you. Your filtering out the negative. Why don't you use the negative you see to actually change your life instead of using the positive to rationalize a way of life that is different than what you want?

As the church falls deeper and deeper into marginalization they will come looking for you. Tehy will hurt your family as they have hurt mine through emotional manipulation.

Your not like me Jason, but you will eventually have to confront your distaste for the irrational nature of Mormonism as they demand total allegiance.


Vegas, I am truly sorry for the pain that you have experienced due to your association with the Mormon Church. It tears me up when I see people who have suffered to the degree you have obviously suffered.

I would never discount your experiences, or label them as false, because that would be disrespectful of your experiences.

We ALL see things from the perspective of our own experiences. Mine have been similar to Jason's and Runtu's. However, I don't discount what you have observed as well.

Why is it so hard for you to fathom a moderate Mormon? Are you just upset because Jason and I have found a way to do it?

What's wrong with using our God-given powers of discernment and taking the good that is in the Church and leaving the bad behind?

I don't care what organized religion you choose to be a part of. You are going to find "goods and bads" to ANY large organization.

I don't begrudge you for finding something that has worked for you and your family...which was leaving Mormonism altogether. Please don't begrudge those of us who have chosen to stay, and have found a way that works for us.
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Re: Funerals to be used primarily as preaching opportunities

Post by _Mercury »

liz3564 wrote:Vegas, I am truly sorry for the pain that you have experienced due to your association with the Mormon Church. It tears me up when I see people who have suffered to the degree you have obviously suffered.

I would never discount your experiences, or label them as false, because that would be disrespectful of your experiences.

We ALL see things from the perspective of our own experiences. Mine have been similar to Jason's and Runtu's. However, I don't discount what you have observed as well.

Why is it so hard for you to fathom a moderate Mormon? Are you just upset because Jason and I have found a way to do it?

What's wrong with using our God-given powers of discernment and taking the good that is in the Church and leaving the bad behind?

I don't care what organized religion you choose to be a part of. You are going to find "goods and bads" to ANY large organization.

I don't begrudge you for finding something that has worked for you and your family...which was leaving Mormonism altogether. Please don't begrudge those of us who have chosen to stay, and have found a way that works for us.


Finding fault in an organization that claims to have no faults is counterproductive to belief in said organization. Religion and belief are locked into each other. I merely see those who sit on the fence as trying to exist in two places at once. You eventually have to choose.

Perception of events is twisted when one comes to th table expecting things. When one cannot find what is expected or if one experiences something they disagree with that person is met with a choice to rationalize or decry.

By decrying Mormonism and other destructive cults one does not excuse the organizations beaviors. Saying the Mormon church and culture needs change yet sticking with the organization does neither yourself or the organization any good.

Staying on topic, saying that Mormon funerals are not marketing techniques misses the reality that ANY opportunity for furthering the cult will be taken by Mormons.

It is not correct to say that my experiences are not fitting with reality. Mormon funerals are stepped in Mormon culture and its ever present self promoting subtext. You can't get away from it.
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_Coggins7
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Post by _Coggins7 »

So basicly, when someone we love dies and we are grieving over the loss of that person and in a state of loss. You are to reach out to people when they are at their lowest to suck them inside the church rather than remember the persons life and possibly gain closure to what might have been a long ordeal. (in the case of a long suffering death



Question: Why don't you get a life Sono and cease and desist with this kind of witless, confrontational gibberish. The Church is all about life, and the glorious and wonderful fact that life is the fundamental fact of the universe. No one actually ever "dies" in any ultimate sense (and nobody goes to Valhalla and orders a beer from a half naked Valkyrie) and a funeral (an event marking a major and important transitionary phase in our eternal progression) is a perfect time to bring that fact to remembrance. I thought Vegas and PP were the kings of just plain flat footedly dumb commentary upon the Church and the philosophical orientation of its faithful members but you've moved to the head of the class (Whoknows is a close second for vacuous pop-Atheist anti-religion rhetoric lifted from old Madalyn Murry O' Hair appearances on Phil Donahue, but lets not quibble here). Reaching out to people at their lowest point and focusing their minds on the church with its blessings, promises, and ordinances of sealing are precisely the point you ninny.

How on earth much rocket science is necessary with these people???


Loran
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