What is your best evidence for Joseph Smith sleeping with his wives?

[_Yoda]

Meanwhile, the Prophet, with Louisa Beeman and my sister Delcena, had it agreeable arranged with Sister Almera, and after a little instruction she stood by the Prophet's side and was sealed to him as a wife, by Brother Clayton; after which the Prophet asked me to take my sister to occupy number "10" in his Mansion home during her stay in the city. But as I could not long be absent from my home and business, we soon returned to Ramus, where on the 15th of May, some three weeks later, the Prophet again came and at my house occupied the same room and bed with my sister, that the month previous he had occupied with the daughter of the late Bishop Partridge, as his wife. (Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin Johnson, brother of Almera and Delcina Johnson who were both married to Joseph Smith, Jr.)

Of course, the apologist answer to this would be that just because they slept in the same bed doesn't mean they had sex.

;)

[cinepro]

Meanwhile, the Prophet, with Louisa Beeman and my sister Delcena, had it agreeable arranged with Sister Almera, and after a little instruction she stood by the Prophet's side and was sealed to him as a wife, by Brother Clayton; after which the Prophet asked me to take my sister to occupy number "10" in his Mansion home during her stay in the city. But as I could not long be absent from my home and business, we soon returned to Ramus, where on the 15th of May, some three weeks later, the Prophet again came and at my house occupied the same room and bed with my sister, that the month previous he had occupied with the daughter of the late Bishop Partridge, as his wife. (Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin Johnson, brother of Almera and Delcina Johnson who were both married to Joseph Smith, Jr.)

Of course, the apologist answer to this would be that just because they slept in the same bed doesn't mean they had sex.

;)

Yes. They were doing their scripture reading there as a newlywed couple, I'm fairly certain of it.

Polygamy is an admitted hot button for me. Actually polyandry is the hottest button for me, but polygamy ranks high as I am a direct line descendant of Benjamin Johnson. Like Always Thinking I constantly see this "No, Joseph Smith didn't have sex with his wives. But if he did, it would have been ok. But we don't think he did. "

That contradicts the rationale that Joseph Smith used for restoring this ungodly doctrine of having multiple wives. It was to raise seed and have lots of children for your glory and reward in heaven. It is hard to argue with D&C 132, accepted canon, on this topic. So the ONLY reason I can think of why Joseph would not have had sex with any particular wife of his (and Rollo's link attests that many of these women did admit to carnal relations) was because Emma was keeping him inside their bedroom, threatening him with a flaming sword if he dare share his seed with another woman.

[_Yoda]

So the ONLY reason I can think of why Joseph would not have had sex with any particular wife of his (and Rollo's link attests that many of these women did admit to carnal relations) was because Emma was keeping him inside their bedroom, threatening him with a flaming sword if he dare share his seed with another woman.

OMG!

Trinity, this is truly a signature worthy remark!

;)

[_AmazingDisgrace]

So the ONLY reason I can think of why Joseph would not have had sex with any particular wife of his (and Rollo's link attests that many of these women did admit to carnal relations) was because Emma was keeping him inside their bedroom, threatening him with a flaming sword if he dare share his seed with another woman.

Not to be mean, but I can think of reasons why he wouldn't have had sex with at least some of wives.


Rhoda Richards

[_Trinity]

So the ONLY reason I can think of why Joseph would not have had sex with any particular wife of his (and Rollo's link attests that many of these women did admit to carnal relations) was because Emma was keeping him inside their bedroom, threatening him with a flaming sword if he dare share his seed with another woman.

Not to be mean, but I can think of reasons why he wouldn't have had sex with at least some of wives.


Rhoda Richards

Tsk, tsk. So unloving. We care more about the number of seed than their appearance, don't you know. Although it might make the process more smooth if the female shaves first.
;)

[_SatanWasSetUp]

So the ONLY reason I can think of why Joseph would not have had sex with any particular wife of his (and Rollo's link attests that many of these women did admit to carnal relations) was because Emma was keeping him inside their bedroom, threatening him with a flaming sword if he dare share his seed with another woman.

Not to be mean, but I can think of reasons why he wouldn't have had sex with at least some of wives.


Rhoda Richards

Hey, us men like variety. Sometimes we fantacize about nailing a supermodel, some days we would pay money to watch girl-on-girl action, and occasionally, not often, but every now and then we want Adolf Hitler in a dress.

[_Who Knows]

..and occasionally, not often, but every now and then we want Adolf Hitler in a dress.

Wow, I'm so relieved to learn that I'm not alone anymore.

[_Some Schmo]

So the ONLY reason I can think of why Joseph would not have had sex with any particular wife of his (and Rollo's link attests that many of these women did admit to carnal relations) was because Emma was keeping him inside their bedroom, threatening him with a flaming sword if he dare share his seed with another woman.

Not to be mean, but I can think of reasons why he wouldn't have had sex with at least some of wives.


Rhoda Richards

Hey, us men like variety. Sometimes we fantacize about nailing a supermodel, some days we would pay money to watch girl-on-girl action, and occasionally, not often, but every now and then we want Adolf Hitler in a dress.

Well, not only that, but judging from her mouth, it doesn't look like she's sporting any teeth. So if she was only three feet tall, she was perfect!

[_Yoda]

..and occasionally, not often, but every now and then we want Adolf Hitler in a dress.

Wow, I'm so relieved to learn that I'm not alone anymore.

OK, you guys really have me worried, now.

LOL

[_Runtu]

Here's Todd Compton:

"In the group of Smith's well-documented wives, eleven (33 percent) were 14 to 20 years old when they married him. Nine wives (27 percent) were twenty-one to thirty years old. Eight wives (24 percent) were in Smith's own peer group, ages thirty-one to forty. In the group aged forty-one to fifty, there is a substantial drop off: two wives, or 6 percent, and three (9 percent) in the group aged fifty-one to sixty."

"The teenage representation is the largest, though the twenty-year and thirty-year groups are comparable, which contradicts the Mormon folk-wisdom that sees the beginnings of polygamy was an attempt to care for older, unattached women. These data suggest that sexual attraction was an important part of the motivation for Smith's polygamy. In fact, the command to multiply and replenish the earth was part of the polygamy theology, so non-sexual marriage was generally not in the polygamous program, as Smith taught it."

"Because of claims by Reorganized Latter-day Saints that Joseph was not really married polygamously in the full (i.e., sexual) sense of the term, Utah Mormons (including Joseph's wives) affirmed repeatedly that Joseph had physical sexual relations with his plural wives-despite the Victorian conventions in nineteenth-century American religion which otherwise would have prevented mention of sexual relations in marriage."

Here's some stuff I stole from Deconstructor's web site:

- Faithful Mormon Melissa Lott (Smith Willes) testified that she had been Joseph's wife "in very deed." (Affidavit of Melissa Willes, 3 Aug. 1893, Temple Lot case, 98, 105; Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 156.)

- In a court affidavit, faithful Mormon Joseph Noble wrote that Joseph told him he had spent the night with Louisa Beaman. (Temple Lot Case, 427)

- Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. (Temple Lot case (complete transcript), 364, 367, 384; see Foster, Religion and Sexuality, 15.)

In total, 13 faithful latter-day saint women who were married to Joseph Smith swore court affidavits that they had sexual relations with him.

- Joseph Smith's personal secretary records that on May 22nd, 1843, Smith's first wife Emma found Joseph and Eliza Partridge secluded in an upstairs bedroom at the Smith home. Emma was devastated.
William Clayton's journal entry for 23 May (see Smith, 105-106)

- Smith's secretary William Clayton also recorded a visit to young Almera Johnson on May 16, 1843: "Prest. Joseph and I went to B[enjamin] F. Johnsons to sleep." Johnson himself later noted that on this visit Smith stayed with Almera "as man and wife" and "occupied the same room and bed with my sister, that the previous month he had occupied with the daughter of the late Bishop Partridge as his wife." Almera Johnson also confirmed her secret marriage to Joseph Smith: "I lived with the prophet Joseph as his wife and he visited me at the home of my brother Benjamin F." (Zimmerman, I Knew the Prophets, 44. See also "The Origin of Plural Marriage, Joseph F. Smith, Jr., Deseret News Press, page 70-71.)

- Faithful Mormon and Stake President Angus Cannon told Joseph Smith's son: "Brother Heber C. Kimball, I am informed, asked [Eliza R. Snow] the question if she was not a virgin although married to Joseph Smith and afterwards to Brigham Young, when she replied in a private gathering, "I thought you knew Joseph Smith better than that."" (Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 23, LDS archives.)

4. Did Joseph Smith father any children from his polygamous wives?

- Stake President Angus Cannon also testified: "I will now refer you to one case where it was said by the girl's grandmother that your father [Joseph Smith] has a daughter born of a plural wife. The girl's grandmother was Mother Sessions . . . She was the grand-daughter of Mother Sessions. That girl, I believe, is living today, in Bountiful, north of this city. I heard prest. Young, a short time before his death, refer to the report . . . The woman is now said to have a family of children, and I think she is still living." (Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, 25-26, LDS archives.)

- Faithful Mormon and wife of Joseph Smith, Sylvia Sessions (Lyon), on her deathbed told her daughter, Josephine, that she (Josephine) was the daughter of Joseph Smith. Josephine testified: "She (Sylvia) then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church." (Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)

- In her testimony given at a Brigham Young University devotional, Faithful Mormon Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner stated that she knew of children born to Smith's plural wives: "I know he [Joseph Smith] had six wives and I have known some of them from childhood up. I know he had three children. They told me. I think two are living today but they are not known as his children as they go by other names." (Read her full BYU testimony here: http://www.ldshistory.net/pc/merlbyu.htm)

- Faithful Mormon Prescindia D. Huntington, who was Normal Buell's wife and simultaneously a "plural wife" of the Prophet Joseph Smith, said that she did not know whether her husband Norman "or the Prophet was the father of her son, Oliver." And a glance at a photo of Oliver shows a strong resemblance to Emma Smith's boys.
(Mary Ettie V. Smith, "Fifteen Years Among the Mormons", page 34; also Fawn Brodie "No Man Knows My History" pages 301-302, 437-39)

- Researchers have tentatively identified eight children that Joseph Smith may have had by his plural wives. Besides Josephine Fisher (b. Feb. 8, 1844) and Oliver Buell, named as possible children of Joseph Smith by his plural wives are John R. Hancock (b. Apr. 19, 1841), George A. Lightner (b. Mar. 12, 1842), Orson W. Hyde (b. Nov. 9, 1843), Frank H. Hyde (b. Jan 23, 1845), Moroni Pratt (b. Dec. 7, 1844), and Zebulon Jacobs (b. Jan 2, 1842). ("Mormon Polygamy: A History" by LDS Historian Richard S. Van Wagoner, pages 44, 48- 49n3.)

There is another piece of evidence you might consider in examining Joseph Smith's sexual behavior. The following excerpt is from a love letter Joseph Smith wrote when he wanted to arrange a liaison with Newel K. Whitney's daughter Sarah Ann, whom Smith had secretly "married." It reveals Smith's cloak-and-dagger approach to his extramarital affairs:

"... the only thing to be careful of; is to find out when Emma comes then you cannot be safe, but when she is not here, there is the most perfect safty. ... Only be careful to escape observation, as much as possible, I know it is a heroick undertakeing; but so much the greater friendship, and the more Joy, when I see you I will tell you all my plans, I cannot write them on paper, burn this letter as soon as you read it; keep all locked up in your breasts, my life depends upon it. ... I close my letter, I think Emma wont come tonight if she don't, don't fail to come to night, I subscribe myself your most obedient, and affectionate, companion, and friend. Joseph Smith."
- Joseph Smith Handwritten Letter, http://www.xmission.com/~research/family/strange.htm

For me, the pertinent issues are these:

If there were no sex involved, why keep the marriages secret from the public, from the husbands, and from Emma?
If he had sex with some of them, which is quite clear from their testimony, what reason would we have to expect that he didn't have sex with others?
If he didn't have sex with his polyandrous wives, why would Sylvia Sessions have said that her daughter was the child of Joseph Smith?
If the commandment were to raise up seed, and there were an "out" in section 132 for being with someone else's wife, why would Joseph have thought twice about it?