Proof that you can't see buried treasures in hats???

[_CaliforniaKid]

The saddest part is that DCP is one of the people involved in this apologetic. If DCP can prove that his hair loss wasn't caused by a UFO landing on the top of his head, then I will buy this apologetic. There's a whole community of people talking about how the US government has covered up the fact that they're in contact with aliens from the planet Serpo. Does DCP really wish to judge that these people are either liars or insane?

[_Belial]

As usual, it is up to the critics to disprove a ridiculous claim. You know what, I can crap gold nuggets. Now prove I can't. by the way, I am not required to show anyone these gold nuggets, but I do have a signed statement from my business partners, friends, and family members that says they saw the gold nuggets. You have 60 days to prove I can't crap gold nuggets. Now get started.

That sounds incredibly painful....depending on the size of the nugget. You might want to see a doctor.

[Guest]

I think in twenty-five years science will say - "okay, where do you think the swords are and we will give you one hundred miles in each direction and you will see what this little infra-red, gamma-ray, delta sky scope can do.

[_harmony]

I'm enamored with some posts on a MAD thread:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... 818&st=160

First, Hammer lays down the gauntlet:

You must give us proof that you can't find buried treasure from looking into a hat. In fact, I could if it were expedient that I do so, or are you denying that all things are possible through the Lord Jesus Christ?

DCP continues:

There were lots and lots of money diggers in Joseph Smith's environment. It was a rather common practice in the culture of the day. Does Jaybear really wish to argue that they were all either liars or insane? Can he provide evidence to sustain such a charge? Much has been written about the culture of money-digging. Do scholars who have written on the topic share Jaybear's simplistic judgment on the topic?

My simple question: are these people insane?

I'm so embarrassed. And this is the cream of the crop, the best the church has to offer.

I'm so glad I never sent my children to BYU. How totally truly excruiatingly embarrassing. Oi!

[_Pokatator]

As usual, it is up to the critics to disprove a ridiculous claim. You know what, I can crap gold nuggets. Now prove I can't. by the way, I am not required to show anyone these gold nuggets, but I do have a signed statement from my business partners, friends, and family members that says they saw the gold nuggets. You have 60 days to prove I can't crap gold nuggets. Now get started.

That sounds incredibly painful....depending on the size of the nugget. You might want to see a doctor.

Now if they were gold plates, well there would probably be some tell-tell signs of stretch marks, etc, which might be considered proof.

[_karl61]

As usual, it is up to the critics to disprove a ridiculous claim. You know what, I can crap gold nuggets. Now prove I can't. by the way, I am not required to show anyone these gold nuggets, but I do have a signed statement from my business partners, friends, and family members that says they saw the gold nuggets. You have 60 days to prove I can't crap gold nuggets. Now get started.

That sounds incredibly painful....depending on the size of the nugget. You might want to see a doctor.

Now if they were gold plates, well there would probably be some tell-tell signs of stretch marks, etc, which might be considered proof.

I guess we could then expect to see people panning in the sewer - yuck!

[_evolving]

I just could not resit - the whole discussion was a surreal display of why smart people believe really weird things..
I posted--

in the Pearl of Great Price - Joseph Smith History - 1

56. In the year 1823 my father’s family met with a great affliction by the death of my eldest brother, Alvin. In the month of October, 1825, I hired with an old gentleman by the name of Josiah Stoal, who lived in Chenango county, State of New York. He had heard something of a silver mine having been opened by the Spaniards in Harmony, Susquehanna county, State of Pennsylvania; and had, previous to my hiring to him, been digging, in order, if possible, to discover the mine. After I went to live with him, he took me, with the rest of his hands, to dig for the silver mine, at which I continued to work for nearly a month, without success in our undertaking, and finally I prevailed with the old gentleman to cease digging after it. Hence arose the very prevalent story of my having been a money-digger.

The above statement is not an complete representation of what happened. in my opinion Is is an attempt to paint a picture that obfuscates the actual events of surrounding the money-digging career of Joseph Smith.

the facts are easily obtained -- Joseph Smith was extensively involved in the practice of money digging. there are no recorded accounts that he located, and recovered any buried treasure. There is no evidence Joseph Smith could see anything. There were sworn statements of confidence, Yes, but no real verifiable evidence he ever actually did it. in his MormonStories podcast Dr. Bushman stated he believes that God was using money-digging as a training method for the budding prophet, but he does not believe he saw anything in the seer stone until the Book of Mormon project, because there is no proof/evidence he could actually do it. back a few pages Dr. Peterson boldly stated that he believes Joseph could see buried treasure. in context or out -to me- it just sounds strange. like e-meter - zenu - clam babies strange !! there is a simple reason this information has been omitted from the missionary discussions.. it is not logical or believable!!! and it makes the defender look more pathetic that the perpetrator, and no one would join the church if that was the opening line of the first discussion.. This thread has been a shining moment in the world of apologetics - wait-- was all this covered in conference, and I just missed it again..

[_Zoidberg]

There were lots and lots of money diggers in Joseph Smith's environment. It was a rather common practice in the culture of the day. Does Jaybear really wish to argue that they were all either liars or insane? Can he provide evidence to sustain such a charge? Much has been written about the culture of money-digging. Do scholars who have written on the topic share Jaybear's simplistic judgment on the topic?

Oversimplify the opponent's argument by accusing them of oversimplification. Throw in some credentialism, and the rightfully so called MAD community gasps in adoration. My encounter with him was very brief on MAD, but I saw him do it time and time again.

Jaybear:
Was the rock magic? Surely it must have been the rock,

DCP:
First of all, I don't -- for reasons that I've published -- use the term magic. Second, the power was not simplistically in the rock, since there are also stories about Joseph being unable to function because he needed to apologize to Emma for a slight. Thus, clearly, his own mental or spiritual state was relevant.

Apparently, the rock was individually tailored to Joseph Smith. It took the combination of Joseph Smith (and only when he was being righteous) and the rock to produce visions. How convenient.

Actually, I've got SWSU beat. I can show y'all physical evidence, i.e. the "divinatory device" that tells me what kingdom of glory you are going to end up in, if any. It's a Bender action figure. I open the door in Bender's stomach and bring my face very close to it to obstruct the light. And in the darkness a spiritual light shines and I see where you are headed. I also charge for my services.

And don't even think of stealing it from me and using it for your own unrighteous gain. I'm the only one who is able to use Bender and only on the days when I've been sniffing glue.

[_sunstoned]

This MAD thread is beyond belief. It is actually a tragic comedy. Some of these guys are intelligent enough to have earned terminal degrees, and they are very aware of the mountain of evidence they are up against. I wonder, in their heart of hearts, do they really believe the twisted apologetic fantasies they come up with.

[_Polygamy Porter]

As usual, it is up to the critics to disprove a ridiculous claim. You know what, I can crap gold nuggets. Now prove I can't. by the way, I am not required to show anyone these gold nuggets, but I do have a signed statement from my business partners, friends, and family members that says they saw the gold nuggets. You have 60 days to prove I can't crap gold nuggets. Now get started.

That sounds incredibly painful....depending on the size of the nugget. You might want to see a doctor.

Nehor, please stop.

Your posts are incredibly painful.