Who Knows wrote:Can I assume, then, that you don't agree with this:
they (the various religious sects) were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
No, I agree with it. Human language has a funny way of being ambiguous. Nowhere in there do I see that everything they teach is an abomination. Note that churches teach the importance of the atonement, repentance, forgiveness, and so on. The are wrong about the Trinity, authority, celestial marriage, and so on.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Who Knows wrote:Can I assume, then, that you don't agree with this:
they (the various religious sects) were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
No, I agree with it. Human language has a funny way of being ambiguous. Nowhere in there do I see that everything they teach is an abomination. Note that churches teach the importance of the atonement, repentance, forgiveness, and so on. The are wrong about the Trinity, authority, celestial marriage, and so on.
It says "all their creeds were an abomination".
That means 'everything' in my mind. So basically, all of their beliefs/doctrine (creeds) are an abomination.
How are you interpreting Jesus' statement to Joseph Smith as meaning that merely some of their beliefs are wrong, but they're right on "many" things?
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
Who Knows wrote:How are you interpreting Jesus' statement to Joseph Smith as meaning that merely some of their beliefs are wrong, but they're right on "many" things?
Logic. If everything they taught was wrong, then Jesus didn't atone for our sins. Since we teach that too, it is obvious that some of their teachings are in fact true. Perhaps one could make the semantic argument that this was nevertheless an abomination in that their hearts were far from Jesus, or in that they didn't have authority. I don't think either is correct. It is plain to me that Jesus is quoting Isaiah and adapting it to the situation at hand.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Who Knows wrote:How are you interpreting Jesus' statement to Joseph Smith as meaning that merely some of their beliefs are wrong, but they're right on "many" things?
Logic.
Logic? Logically, it doesn't add up. So the only way it can work 'logically', is for you to change the meaning of what was said. The fact that it doesn't add up logically, without changing the meaning, should be a red flag, at least for me...
(it also makes sense to me when thinking about the Book of Mormon - church of god vs. church of the devil)
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
asbestosman wrote:If differences in exits were too apparent, then it might be too obvious which church is true and therefore deny us the opportunity to walk by faith instead of sight.
Oooh, here comes the "God as a conspiracy" garbage again. It's sad you believe this crap, Abman. If it smells like a turd then it's s*** -- don't tell me God made it stink in order to test our "faith" (actually, in order to test our ability to deny what our senses are telling us). This argument is a sign of deperation and denial.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
Sethbag wrote:The Mormon church isn't so special after all, people. It just happens to be the false religion that we, here, came out of.
If there were no JWs for me to compare Mormons to, I probably would have stayed a Mormon for another 5 years. It would have taken me that much longer to figure out my church and the fervor of belief surrounding me were nothing special.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
Sethbag wrote:The Mormon church isn't so special after all, people. It just happens to be the false religion that we, here, came out of.
If there were no JWs for me to compare Mormons to, I probably would have stayed a Mormon for another 5 years. It would have taken me that much longer to figure out my church and the fervor of belief surrounding me were nothing special.
I have to admit it never occurred to me that other people dealt with these issues besides exmormons. When I've read what other people have gone through, I feel a kinship, like we're survivors. I know, believers will scoff and wonder what we survived. You won't ever know unless you travel the road we have.
asbestosman wrote:Still, I'm not so sure I'd go as far as to characterize the JW's as false. I think they're wrong on some things, but they have the truth on many issues too.
Can I assume, then, that you don't agree with this:
they (the various religious sects) were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
Easy, the JWs weren't invented yet. Only the churches that existed in 1820 were "wrong". There is nothing in Mormon doctrine that says churches that started AFTER the first vision aren't correct. So it could be the JWs have it right. Maybe Scientology is true. I believe the Seventh Day Adventists started after 1820. Maybe they're the ones.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks