LDS Reverence...What purpose?

[_Roger Morrison]

Dr. Steuss, wrote:

Sometimes I wonder how much of our worship is due to the prevalence of 19th Century American Protestantism within the roots of Mormonism in lieu of what is truly pleasing in the sight of G-d.

All of it! Unfortunately, while other sects have moved on to a more contemporary Christianism, we's still anchored by nice old gentlemen to early American religious tradition. OTOH, they fly the skies in super-jets and develop real estate world wide. Sort-of like the Mennonites who paint their truck crome black. Gotta wonder... Warm regards, Roger

[_cacheman]

I can relate big time. For me doing this passive-aggresive type behavior can make a person very angry if they are asked very kindly, very softly, can they please do this and this and this..when they don't want to......

I think that this is the key, and not the "reverence" or solemnity. I find silent worship to be very rewarding. Of course, when it is forced, it becomes counterproductive. In our Quaker meetings, conformity is not expected, and children and teens are allowed alternative options during our worship. I have seen good fruits coming from a feeling of freedom and noncomformity, in a tradition rooted in reverent worship. I think that the danger lies in the level of expected conformity rather than the decibel level.

As they say, "I'm a Quaker. In case of emergency, be quiet." ;)

cacheman

[_Bond...James Bond]

Actually, I've had the opposite reaction from folks. I grew up in a predominantly Catholic community. Every once in a while, I would have a friend spend the night, and attend Church with me.

Many of them were taken aback by the crying and unruly kids running around in the hall during Sacrament Meeting.

One friend told me that if she had acted that way during Church, she would have been beaten until she couldn't sit anymore.

To me, the main problem with Church is how long it is. 3 hours is just way too long for small children to have to sit with their arms folded. It's ridiculous!

For my hyperactive 3 year old, I always bring my backpack full of quiet toys, crayons, coloring books, crackers and other snacks, and I still end up out in the hall with him...Usually about half way through the meeting, he's sitting on my lap, watching "Star Wars" on my video IPOD.

;)

I'd have to agree making anyone sit still and quietly for three hours is a chore. Whether they're 3 or 33 or 333 (I don't know anyone that age but I don't want to leave them out). Especially when there's the chance of watching Star Wars....can I sit in your lap and watch Star Wars Liz? Or is that frowned on?

PS: There's only one church energetic enough for me....the Triple Rock Baptist Church (language warning)

[_Gazelam]

Roger,

Are you trying to tell me that youve never been pelted with a toy or a stray cheerio while in sacrament meeting? And as far as well dressed and well behaved deacons serving the sacrament, I can't think of a better example of reverence and obedience properly exemplified. How exactly wee you taught to act when visiting your grandparents home and sitting down at the family dinner table?

Gaz

[_Roger Morrison]

Roger,

Are you trying to tell me that you've never been pelted with a toy or a stray cheerio while in sacrament meeting? And as far as well dressed and well behaved deacons serving the sacrament, I can't think of a better example of reverence and obedience properly exemplified. How exactly wee you taught to act when visiting your grandparents home and sitting down at the family dinner table?

Gaz

Gaz, i don't recall. And if i had, i'd have laughed and attempted to engage the poor little soul in a game of catch. I have, many times, leaned over the pew in front and played with the kid's toys with her/him. Usually attended by forced 'niceness' of the parents who attempted to disengage us and 'hush' the kid. Couldn't do much about me

Personally, i think it 'cruel & unusual punishment' to expose a child under 5 to such mindless, meaness. (Maybe under 21 :-) It does them, generally speaking, far more harm than good. OTOH, were the child to conform to such regimentation, i might wonder about their abnormality. But if they enjoy it, without quiet-books--a more Mormon form of appeasement, than not--Cherrios, et al than hey, OK. For that one, but please don't use that child as a model for all children.

"I can't think..." Respectfully Bro, try harder... Have you ever watched Military Rifle Drills? I refer you to Style Guy's post, Oct 22, '07, 12:11 PM. Read it and "think" ;-)

"...family dinner table...": with my elbows/arms off the table. Bring the food to your mouth. Don't bend/hunch down to the food. Ask, with please & thanks, don't stand and reach across the table. Be pleasant, polite and respectful. Golly-Gee-Wiz, I still am :-)

Uniforms, of whatever nature--LDS, white shirt & tie--serve the institution more than the wearer, generally speaking. Read Style-Guy again. They in fact disguise the individual and give an image that often belies the person's true character--Style Guy again.

Personally, i have great respect of "reverence". It's a part of one's disposition and character. How one speaks, handles tools, impliments, books and even a canoe-paddle; do they throw them around, toss them with indifference? I have often watched Missionary demeanor. Body language silently signals more truth than words can undo. IMSCO, church is one of the poorest places to present/exercise "reverence"...

It is a long standing fallacy of religion in general, robes magnify piety. LDSism knows that's not true. Then, for the same reason, created their own style of dress unwittingly demonstrating their piety to be as fallacious as the other guy's. To those who cannot/will-not see they have their reward. Warm regards, Roger

[_Yoda]

Especially when there's the chance of watching Star Wars....can I sit in your lap and watch Star Wars Liz?

You know you're always welcome to sit in my lap and watch Star Wars. LOL

However, I will warn you, my 3 year old might object. He might even engage in a light saber duel with you for the spot!

;)

[_Gazelam]

It is a long standing fallacy of religion in general, robes magnify piety. LDSism knows that's not true. Then, for the same reason, created their own style of dress unwittingly demonstrating their piety to be as fallacious as the other guy's.

We do get to choose our tie design. : )

And women get their choice of many various styles of dresses.

Also keep in mind that God is a God of order. He stands in opposition to chaos.

[_harmony]

It is a long standing fallacy of religion in general, robes magnify piety. LDSism knows that's not true. Then, for the same reason, created their own style of dress unwittingly demonstrating their piety to be as fallacious as the other guy's.

We do get to choose our tie design. : )

And women get their choice of many various styles of dresses.

Also keep in mind that God is a God of order. He stands in opposition to chaos.

I spent last Sunday in my youngest daughter's ward, watching my sons, son-on-law, and Sweet Pickle bless her newborn baby girl (her name is Lily Harmony... I thought that was so sweet!). They live in a pretty unique ward, as far as boundaries go. She lives in a metropolitan city. In her stake, all the youth are assigned to one ward: hers. All of the youth in the stake attend the same ward. There are 4 priests and 8 teachers and deacons. In this part of a city of a million and a half people, there were 12 Aaronic priesthood holders. We have more than that in just our little rural ward.

When the teachers and deacons passed the sacrament, all of them participated. Of the 8, 3 wore blue shirts and 1 wore a green one. Of the 8, 5 had hair past their collars and 1 had hair to his waist. The one thought in my head, while watching them administer the sacrament to the congregation was "he's here". What a joy and blessing he must be to his momma... he's HERE! He lives essentially in Babylon, but he chooses to remain worthy throughout the week and then spend his Sunday morning, blessing those of us who are so staid and stiff with the comforting knowledge that he's HERE, administering to us.

Of course there were raised eyebrows, but I didn't care. That boy was fulfilling his priesthood duties as well as any of the white shirt clad boys with military haircuts... and God loves him just as much! And he was THERE! I have a great deal of respect for that boy's bishop. He understands the gospel of Jesus Christ much better than most of our GA's, and certainly better than our president of the Relief Society General Board!

[_Roger Morrison]

Gaz:

We do get to choose our tie design. : ) Try a nude mama, nursing ;-)

And women get their choice of many various styles of dresses. As long as they don't and do...

Also keep in mind that God is a God of order. He stands in opposition to chaos. "God" seems to tolerate 'chaos'. Order and conformity ain't the same thing ;-) (Bold added by RM)

Harmony, nice for You to have been there with your family. It is nice to see enlightened exceptions to rules. Gives me hope.

Thanks to both of ya. Enjoy your moments. Warm regards, Roger