beastie wrote:I think most people would agree that there are times when lying is a moral choice. I'm not arguing against that.
I do agree with this. For example, if I let off wind in a car, I would deny it, and worse, probably blame someone else.
..Maybe to be funny. But since this is a serious thread...
I'll admit that when our first born would rip an audible one in sacrament meeting I'd turn and give my wife that look as if she did it. I recall a harsh lecture when we got in private. Sometimes you can't avoid the very appearance of evil.
I digress..
What is worse, getting caught or admitting one's, well, weak moment?
thestyleguy wrote:the LDS church is full of liars. Always have been and always will. There are more liars because the church expects so much of it's members. When the church gives nothing but adoring history to their members and their members do nothing but give adoring history back to them during temple interviews. Plus, how missionarys lied and said they wanted to go on a mission when the truth is that they didn't. I know I lied and said I wanted to go. How many missionaries lied when asked if they were worthy: likely ten percent or twenty five hundred a year. That's a low estimate. I didn't lie about that what ever "worthy" is -
"I lied, so I'll bet everyone lies." Projection much?
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
thestyleguy wrote:the LDS church is full of liars. Always have been and always will. There are more liars because the church expects so much of it's members. When the church gives nothing but adoring history to their members and their members do nothing but give adoring history back to them during temple interviews. Plus, how missionarys lied and said they wanted to go on a mission when the truth is that they didn't. I know I lied and said I wanted to go. How many missionaries lied when asked if they were worthy: likely ten percent or twenty five hundred a year. That's a low estimate. I didn't lie about that what ever "worthy" is -
"I lied, so I'll bet everyone lies." Projection much?
LoaP, if you've never lied, you are one of two who never have, Christ being the other. You might want to rethink your response. Everyone lies, including church leaders. We all expect and we are never surprised. What we are surprised about is what our leaders lie about. Case in point: hidden financial information is a lie, a despicable lie.
thestyleguy wrote:the LDS church is full of liars. Always have been and always will. There are more liars because the church expects so much of it's members. When the church gives nothing but adoring history to their members and their members do nothing but give adoring history back to them during temple interviews. Plus, how missionarys lied and said they wanted to go on a mission when the truth is that they didn't. I know I lied and said I wanted to go. How many missionaries lied when asked if they were worthy: likely ten percent or twenty five hundred a year. That's a low estimate. I didn't lie about that what ever "worthy" is -
Even if this is true, which I highly doubt that your numbers are even close to accurate, lying and lying for the Lord are 2 completely seperate topics.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
thestyleguy wrote:the LDS church is full of liars. Always have been and always will. There are more liars because the church expects so much of it's members. When the church gives nothing but adoring history to their members and their members do nothing but give adoring history back to them during temple interviews. Plus, how missionarys lied and said they wanted to go on a mission when the truth is that they didn't. I know I lied and said I wanted to go. How many missionaries lied when asked if they were worthy: likely ten percent or twenty five hundred a year. That's a low estimate. I didn't lie about that what ever "worthy" is -
"I lied, so I'll bet everyone lies." Projection much?
LoaP, if you've never lied, you are one of two who never have, Christ being the other. You might want to rethink your response. Everyone lies, including church leaders. We all expect and we are never surprised. What we are surprised about is what our leaders lie about. Case in point: hidden financial information is a lie, a despicable lie.
We are all entitled to our own opinions. I thought style overstated his point greatly.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
Scottie wrote: Even if this is true, which I highly doubt that your numbers are even close to accurate, lying and lying for the Lord are 2 completely seperate topics.
How on earth are they two separate topics? A lie is a lie, no matter what your intention. Isn't the path to hell paved with good intentions?
Let's just put it out on the table what we're really talking about. When people say they're lying for the lord, what they really mean is that they can't tell the truth or it would screw their chances to accomplish some church-related goal, and that's all there is to it. Plain and simple.
And let's face it; lying is part of the church's culture. That's what "faithful history" is all about.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Scottie wrote: Even if this is true, which I highly doubt that your numbers are even close to accurate, lying and lying for the Lord are 2 completely seperate topics.
How on earth are they two separate topics? A lie is a lie, no matter what your intention. Isn't the path to hell paved with good intentions?
Let's just put it out on the table what we're really talking about. When people say they're lying for the lord, what they really mean is that they can't tell the truth or it would screw their chances to accomplish some church-related goal, and that's all there is to it. Plain and simple.
And let's face it; lying is part of the church's culture. That's what "faithful history" is all about.
Yes, lying for the lord and lying are both the same, in that they are both lying. However posting about lying for the lord and posting about lying are 2 separate conversations.
You can't say, "Look at how Joseph Smith lied for the Lord. And, all the missionaries lie too!! It's just ingrained in Mormons!!"
Would that be considered a strawman? Or a logical fallacy?
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
thestyleguy wrote:Plus, how missionarys lied and said they wanted to go on a mission when the truth is that they didn't. I know I lied and said I wanted to go.
Yeah, it's kinda like when I lied about wanting to work for such-and-such employer. I'd much rather sit on my butt and have all my needs provided for.
Similarly, I would have liked to forgoe a mission and yet also have cute, faithful LDS girls think I'm marriage material--at least as marriagable as RMs.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
thestyleguy wrote:pushing the Book of Mormon as a record of ancient america is lying for the the Mormon lord.
When thestyleguy speaks, the thinking has been done.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam