Funding for apologetics

[_Trevor]

Who pays for studies surrounding Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon, church history, or other church related topics?

Daniel says it's not the church...

A couple of points:

1. Of course the LDS Church offers financial support to LDS apologetics on some level. If the LDS Church handles any money that goes to pay for facilities, resources, and personnel that go into the NMI, FARMS Review, etc., then they do fund Book of Mormon apologetics.

2. The Church pays as little as it can, and relies on the goodwill and generosity of others as much as possible. It asks its members to foot the bill, either through tithing, or through offerings, even extraordinary ones that it drums up from the rich via the LDS Foundation. If this is the way it gets the job done, it is still technically marshaling its resources through various means to get the job done. A rose by any other name...

3. I am not sure why this is a big deal. Of course the LDS Church is going to provide support for things that forward its cause. I am not sure why DCP would deny that this is the case, and I am even more puzzled as to why this should be something critics pick on.

[_beastie]

I am not sure why this is a big deal. Of course the LDS Church is going to provide support for things that forward its cause. I am not sure why DCP would deny that this is the case, and I am even more puzzled as to why this should be something critics pick on.

It's because the church prides itself on not having a paid ministry. I think that's silly, and paid ministries are a good idea, but in its early days the church made hay of the idea of the base minister working for satan for money, so it made its current bed.

[_Infymus]

DCP has always denied funding from the LDS Corporation. When I asked him how much the Corp paid him to work for FARMS, he said that he was paid nothing. He spends an inordinate amount of time on the FAIR/MAAD boards and writing works for FARMS (or whatever they want to call themselves now). Some figured there was no way he could be teaching at all up there and his salary was merely a way to pay him for his apologetics.

This set off a tiny bomb in DCP's head and he attacked me for even asking.

I was curious as to Daniel's statement that the LDS Church did not pay his salary to be an apologist. I wrote:

"I will look into your claims that the LDS Corporation does not directly pay your salary to be an apologist. If we traced the money backwards through BYU, the source would ultimately lead to the LDS Corporation and into the pocket of unsuspecting tithed members."

He responded in his usual, flippant, "I'm flipping you off with my 2000 words" remark:

"There is no secret about the fact that Brigham Young University is funded by the “LDS Corporation,” as you choose to call it, and the fact that the “LDS Corporation” is supported by the tithes of its members is also widely known (particularly among tithe payers). Likewise, the fact that I’m employed by Brigham Young University is scarcely classified information: I’m listed in University catalogues, in the University’s telephone directory, and on the University’s website (among other places). I’m not precisely sure, therefore, why you imagine that tithe payers would be “unsuspecting,” or what it is that you propose to “look into,” but I certainly wish you well in your investigations. Courage!"

I'll have to dig it up, but FARMS receives a little over 21 million dollars a year in funding from Mormon Inc. People like DCP are then indirectly paid through this to write apologetic drivel. I just often wonder if the one hand knows what the other hand is doing.

[_harmony]

I'll have to dig it up, but FARMS receives a little over 21 million dollars a year in funding from Mormon Inc. People like DCP are then indirectly paid through this to write apologetic drivel. I just often wonder if the one hand knows what the other hand is doing.

I am flummoxed at Daniel's response just yesterday. What is so bad about admitting that the church funds apologists? And since it funds apologists, it also funds the research they do? Why is that so bad, that he feels he has to publically deny it?

And I'd like to see your source of the $21 million annually.

[_Gadianton]

Trevor made some good points. We can't lose sight of the fact that the church didn't get to where its at by being generous. It's cheap. It's going to let its members do for free whatever it can. I know a business consultant who caught the ear of the CoB and detailed some ideas he had. They were interested in moving forward, but by the end of the preliminaries, it had become clear that he'd get not even a bare bones "stipend" for his project, they had assumed that he knew before hand his efforts would be service to the Lord. Since he had a family to feed, he backed out. And what would we expect from the Org that self-insures its buildings? Sure, it makes sense across a large number of buildings to save the premiums, but then when one burns down, it cries and pleads, and holds out the collection plate for the local members. And rather than spend a dime, didn't one of the twelve recently call upon members to start blogs and defend the church? Maybe the church is already feeling the financial strain FARMS is putting on them.

[Guest]

They were interested in moving forward, but by the end of the preliminaries, it had become clear that he'd get not even a bare bones "stipend" for his project, they had assumed that he knew before hand his efforts would be service to the Lord.

Yes. Never imagine that the LDS Church will pay fair market value for any good or service when it works with LDS people. As long as one can afford to donate, and understands what it is one is agreeing to, I don't see a problem for either party. It is when people who can't afford to donate in this way, and who do it anyway, that they end up feeling bad and suffering the most. I know of people who have done work for the LDS Church, including my own mother, who did renovation work on temples. They knew the score when going into it, and understood they were sacrificing for what they believe in. It was (for these believers) a fine experience. If you can't afford to sacrifice, or don't know this is what you are expected to do, then be warned. I also know people whom the Church strung along with hopes of employment, who were used and then essentially tossed aside. The organization has little concept of loyalty to its members in return. I don't think this is personal. It is part of the institution's flawed design.

[_Infymus]

And rather than spend a dime, didn't one of the twelve recently call upon members to start blogs and defend the church? Maybe the church is already feeling the financial strain FARMS is putting on them.

I think putting up websites is the best thing the Cult has asked for. It will help guide members who have nothing more to say other than, "I know the twerch is twoo", and "if you want real answers, go to FARMS". That in turn will guide more people into the gaping wound that is, FARMS, and and in tale, lead them to people like myself who will help them get out.

I love every bit of it. Thank you FARMS, I could not do so much work without you.

[_Coggins7]

Who pays for studies surrounding Book of Abraham, Book of Mormon, church history, or other church related topics?

Karl Rove Harmony, and the Neocons.

[_Coggins7]

Infy, would a life really, really be that much to expect?

[_Coggins7]

It's because the church prides itself on not having a paid ministry. I think that's silly, and paid ministries are a good idea, but in its early days the church made hay of the idea of the base minister working for satan for money, so it made its current bed.

No, actually, its a very bad idea, and its also unbiblical, which is a plus for anyone who thinks its a bad idea.