First day using the Joseph Smith manual

[_sunstoned]

last week, I was asked by my HP group leader, to teach the first lesson... when he initially asked, I laughed, and asked him if he was serious. well it turns out he was, and he wished me to initiate the new year going through the first section, which is a highlight of the entire career of Joseph Smith, birth to death.. I guess I have made enough insightful, non-offensive comments lately to qualify to teach the group.

For those who care, in my privately held opinion, the manual is a collection of everything I have grown to hate about correlated "teachings of the prophets" manuals.. they are full of white-washed history, faith promoting rumors, and historic events invented post hoc, and inserted into the swiss cheese belief system Joseph and crew created when they invented Mormonism.

Yeah, I laughed at his face when he asked me to teach, because I thought he knew my position of respectful non-belief. I have told him many times, but I guess his paradigm did not allow him to translate what I have said, into what I actually said. I think he has a better understanding now..

I prepared what I thought was an completely innocuous lesson -- I stuck to the manual, and few things from the Era & Ensign, and one FARMS paper comparing multiple versions of the First Vision. It was hard to jam everything I wanted to review in the 40 or so minutes, but I tried my best.. I was a little astonished at what the group did not know. overall, it was a congenial discussion.

here is a partial list of things many HP's heard for the first time today..
1. Joseph Smith's birthday, and Moroni's visits are astrologically significant days - solstice & equinox
2. that there were more than one version of the first vision.
3. the plates and U&T were taken back by Moroni after the 116 pages were lost, and only the plates were returned..
4. Yes - we delved heavily into the seer-stones, where he found it, how he used it, the 1826 court record, what he was doing when he met emma, that it was used to receive the entire Book of Mormon. ie... the plates were never used ...etc cetera...
5. the exact date Peter James & John restored the higher priesthood is unknown, but first recorded in 1831
6. the original name the church used, the first change, and the second change...
7. failed attempt to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon in Canada
8. that polygamy was not only taught by Joseph "since 1831" it was practiced by him -- often --
9. his death was primarily caused by the destruction of the Nauvoo expositor Press..

at first I was nervous, but it turns out someone on the High Council was there to happily confirm everything I taught... in retrospect it was kind of funny, every time I shared some paradigm stretching information with the group. a few of them would look back and see Bro. Man*** nodding his head, and saying yup -- that is the way it is recorded in the history...

I think I just sold 6 RSR's for Dr. Bushman.. he can thank me later --

You're right, nobody cares.

You are wrong. I care. It took guts to teach an honest lesson. I wish more members were this honest.

[_evolving]

You're right, nobody cares.

congratulations on your newly adopted brevity, It usually takes at least 500 words to express such a profound thought.

now is this a nobody cares, as in you are a nobody, and you care? or a no nobody cares, like your recent attempt to reconcile current Book of Abraham apologetics with reality? - I am sorry that did not work out the way you hoped or expected - Peace out ~!~

[_Jason Bourne]

last week, I was asked by my HP group leader, to teach the first lesson... when he initially asked, I laughed, and asked him if he was serious. well it turns out he was, and he wished me to initiate the new year going through the first section, which is a highlight of the entire career of Joseph Smith, birth to death.. I guess I have made enough insightful, non-offensive comments lately to qualify to teach the group.

For those who care, in my privately held opinion, the manual is a collection of everything I have grown to hate about correlated "teachings of the prophets" manuals.. they are full of white-washed history, faith promoting rumors, and historic events invented post hoc, and inserted into the swiss cheese belief system Joseph and crew created when they invented Mormonism.

Yeah, I laughed at his face when he asked me to teach, because I thought he knew my position of respectful non-belief. I have told him many times, but I guess his paradigm did not allow him to translate what I have said, into what I actually said. I think he has a better understanding now..

I prepared what I thought was an completely innocuous lesson -- I stuck to the manual, and few things from the Era & Ensign, and one FARMS paper comparing multiple versions of the First Vision. It was hard to jam everything I wanted to review in the 40 or so minutes, but I tried my best.. I was a little astonished at what the group did not know. overall, it was a congenial discussion.

here is a partial list of things many HP's heard for the first time today..
1. Joseph Smith's birthday, and Moroni's visits are astrologically significant days - solstice & equinox
2. that there were more than one version of the first vision.
3. the plates and U&T were taken back by Moroni after the 116 pages were lost, and only the plates were returned..
4. Yes - we delved heavily into the seer-stones, where he found it, how he used it, the 1826 court record, what he was doing when he met emma, that it was used to receive the entire Book of Mormon. ie... the plates were never used ...etc cetera...
5. the exact date Peter James & John restored the higher priesthood is unknown, but first recorded in 1831
6. the original name the church used, the first change, and the second change...
7. failed attempt to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon in Canada
8. that polygamy was not only taught by Joseph "since 1831" it was practiced by him -- often --
9. his death was primarily caused by the destruction of the Nauvoo expositor Press..

at first I was nervous, but it turns out someone on the High Council was there to happily confirm everything I taught... in retrospect it was kind of funny, every time I shared some paradigm stretching information with the group. a few of them would look back and see Bro. Man*** nodding his head, and saying yup -- that is the way it is recorded in the history...

I think I just sold 6 RSR's for Dr. Bushman.. he can thank me later --

You're right, nobody cares.

Actually his points were pretty fair and balanced.

What was inaccurate or not true about this post Coggins? Try to answer honestly and try not to use too many words.

[_evolving]

How different will HP group be next week?

I have already loaned out my two copies of RSR, and two sets of B.H. Roberts Comprehensive History. Next Week - the first vision - the manual uses the 1832 & 1842 accounts, thus opening the door for the other 6 or so versions to be discussed. I have already passed out the comparison chart from FARMS..should be fun

[_SatanWasSetUp]

Did you explain to the students that most of the stuff Joseph taught was just his opinion? It's important for them to know that. I'm sure the manual only has the stuff that the correlation committee has determined to be doctrine, so as long as you and the members stick to the manual you should be good. I would encourage them not to go outside the official Joseph Smith manual to learn about him.

[_why me]

last week, I was asked by my HP group leader, to teach the first lesson... when he initially asked, I laughed, and asked him if he was serious. well it turns out he was, and he wished me to initiate the new year going through the first section, which is a highlight of the entire career of Joseph Smith, birth to death.. I guess I have made enough insightful, non-offensive comments lately to qualify to teach the group.

For those who care, in my privately held opinion, the manual is a collection of everything I have grown to hate about correlated "teachings of the prophets" manuals.. they are full of white-washed history, faith promoting rumors, and historic events invented post hoc, and inserted into the swiss cheese belief system Joseph and crew created when they invented Mormonism.

Yeah, I laughed at his face when he asked me to teach, because I thought he knew my position of respectful non-belief. I have told him many times, but I guess his paradigm did not allow him to translate what I have said, into what I actually said. I think he has a better understanding now..

I prepared what I thought was an completely innocuous lesson -- I stuck to the manual, and few things from the Era & Ensign, and one FARMS paper comparing multiple versions of the First Vision. It was hard to jam everything I wanted to review in the 40 or so minutes, but I tried my best.. I was a little astonished at what the group did not know. overall, it was a congenial discussion.

here is a partial list of things many HP's heard for the first time today..
1. Joseph Smith's birthday, and Moroni's visits are astrologically significant days - solstice & equinox
2. that there were more than one version of the first vision.
3. the plates and U&T were taken back by Moroni after the 116 pages were lost, and only the plates were returned..
4. Yes - we delved heavily into the seer-stones, where he found it, how he used it, the 1826 court record, what he was doing when he met emma, that it was used to receive the entire Book of Mormon. ie... the plates were never used ...etc cetera...
5. the exact date Peter James & John restored the higher priesthood is unknown, but first recorded in 1831
6. the original name the church used, the first change, and the second change...
7. failed attempt to sell the copyright of the Book of Mormon in Canada
8. that polygamy was not only taught by Joseph "since 1831" it was practiced by him -- often --
9. his death was primarily caused by the destruction of the Nauvoo expositor Press..

at first I was nervous, but it turns out someone on the High Council was there to happily confirm everything I taught... in retrospect it was kind of funny, every time I shared some paradigm stretching information with the group. a few of them would look back and see Bro. Man*** nodding his head, and saying yup -- that is the way it is recorded in the history...

I think I just sold 6 RSR's for Dr. Bushman.. he can thank me later --

You're right, nobody cares.

You are wrong. I care. It took guts to teach an honest lesson. I wish more members were this honest.

For members to be 'honest' they would need to know more in depth history. It is available in the bookstores and on the internet. But many do not have the time nor the inclination to seek. I am not writing this to imply that if 'ignorant' members who know little of doctrine or history would discover the history they would be on RFM. Rather, to state that many LDS people have other things going on in life to actually care about LDS history.

[_Blixa]

For members to be 'honest' they would need to know more in depth history. It is available in the bookstores and on the internet. But many do not have the time nor the inclination to seek. I am not writing this to imply that if 'ignorant' members who know little of doctrine or history would discover the history they would be on RFM. Rather, to state that many LDS people have other things going on in life to actually care about LDS history.

No matter how much time you have you won't be inclined to care about things you don't even know exist...

[_guy sajer]

I taught the lesson to introduce our new manual, but I used my own lesson, not the manual.

I opened with 'Why do Mormons worship Joseph Smith, why does your church manual have Joseph Smith on the cover and not Jesus Christ?"

That was a nice attention getter, and I got alot of deer in the headlights looks from the quorum.

The lesson consisted of twelve points of doctrine Joseph brought to us that are unique to our faith.

A visit to the Joseph Smith Memorial Building in downtown SLC is sufficient to suggest the possibility that Mormons DO worship Joseph Smith. Every nook, cranny, corner is stuffed with some kind of statue, painting, representation, etc. of the guy. If Chairman Mao could manage a ectoplasmic visit there, I think he'd be jealous.

Then there's the Joseph Smith movie in the Legacy Theater. My aged parents were here and they wanted to see it. So I took them. Initially, I did not intend to sit through it, but I wanted to support my parents.

The movie is the absolute worst type of hagiography/propoganda. To say that it distorts history is a gross understatement. Joseph Smith is portrayed as an umblemished, saint of a man--why he can even whack an early version of a baseball over the heads of the outfielders. The movie is blatantly dishonest about the history of the man. It is shameful. It is embarrassing. I don't think that at the height of the Culteral Revolution that party functionaries chould have produced such a bavura piece of propoganda.

(By the way, if anyone's seen it, was the guy who played Joseph Smith the same guy who played the brother of Meg Ryan in Kate & Leopold?)

The slavish devotion so shamelessly on display at the Joseph Smith Building is nauseating, and one can understandably come away thinking that Mormons do indeed worship Joseph Smith.

[_rcrocket]

9. his death was primarily caused by the destruction of the Nauvoo expositor Press..

This is certainly wrong. I don't know how you could conclude the motivations of many long distant.

He was held in jail for treason. He was charged with treason not because the City Council authorized the destruction of the press, but because he declared martial law. So, I'd say, a better (and I can't say, "primarily") reason for his death was that a drunken, riled up mob attacked him after he was jailed for treason for declaring martial law.

Was the destruction of the press a factor? Certainly, as was bloc voting, which appeared to concern the locals lots more than celestial wifery if you just base what you see upon what was said in the press. Also, claims of Mormon banditry; the Laws' participation in whipping things up.

rcrocket

[_The Nehor]

I taught the lesson to introduce our new manual, but I used my own lesson, not the manual.

I opened with 'Why do Mormons worship Joseph Smith, why does your church manual have Joseph Smith on the cover and not Jesus Christ?"

That was a nice attention getter, and I got alot of deer in the headlights looks from the quorum.

The lesson consisted of twelve points of doctrine Joseph brought to us that are unique to our faith.

A visit to the Joseph Smith Memorial Building in downtown SLC is sufficient to suggest the possibility that Mormons DO worship Joseph Smith. Every nook, cranny, corner is stuffed with some kind of statue, painting, representation, etc. of the guy. If Chairman Mao could manage a ectoplasmic visit there, I think he'd be jealous.

Then there's the Joseph Smith movie in the Legacy Theater. My aged parents were here and they wanted to see it. So I took them. Initially, I did not intend to sit through it, but I wanted to support my parents.

The movie is the absolute worst type of hagiography/propoganda. To say that it distorts history is a gross understatement. Joseph Smith is portrayed as an umblemished, saint of a man--why he can even whack an early version of a baseball over the heads of the outfielders. The movie is blatantly dishonest about the history of the man. It is shameful. It is embarrassing. I don't think that at the height of the Culteral Revolution that party functionaries chould have produced such a bavura piece of propoganda.

(By the way, if anyone's seen it, was the guy who played Joseph Smith the same guy who played the brother of Meg Ryan in Kate & Leopold?)

The slavish devotion so shamelessly on display at the Joseph Smith Building is nauseating, and one can understandably come away thinking that Mormons do indeed worship Joseph Smith.

Exactly what were you expecting to see in the Joseph Smith Memorial Building? Statues of the Buddha and films about Gahndi?