Racism in Mormon Art?

[_Gadianton]

Gaz: can I ask you to interpret your painting?

[_Ray A]

Here is some of the "socialist vision", encapsulated by Lenin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... gewanted=1

Just as merciless was the way Lenin took advantage of the devastating famine of 1921 to 1922 to seize precious objects from the Russian Orthodox Church to stave off state bankruptcy. ''It is precisely now and only now, when in the starving regions people are eating human flesh, and hundreds if not thousands of corpses are littering the roads, that we can (and therefore must) carry out the confiscation of church valuables with the most savage and merciless energy, not stopping $(short of$) crushing any resistance.'' He continued, ''The greater the number of representatives of the reactionary clergy and reactionary bourgeoisie we succeed in executing for this reason, the better.''

And you're complaining about "racism in Mormon art", Gad? Do you ever need a lesson in history!

[Guest]

Here is some of the "socialist vision", encapsulated by Lenin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... gewanted=1

Just as merciless was the way Lenin took advantage of the devastating famine of 1921 to 1922 to seize precious objects from the Russian Orthodox Church to stave off state bankruptcy. ''It is precisely now and only now, when in the starving regions people are eating human flesh, and hundreds if not thousands of corpses are littering the roads, that we can (and therefore must) carry out the confiscation of church valuables with the most savage and merciless energy, not stopping $(short of$) crushing any resistance.'' He continued, ''The greater the number of representatives of the reactionary clergy and reactionary bourgeoisie we succeed in executing for this reason, the better.''

And you're complaining about "racism in Mormon art", Gad? Do you ever need a lesson in history!

Uh, I have no comments as it relates to racism in Mormon art. I had a morbid curiosity a few years back on cannibalism practiced in the Soviet Union (and a few other countries) and well it's gory to say the least. Anyway, I wonder if those happy smiling people in the first painting delighted in others flesh at their picnic? I did notice there was no food evident in the 2nd painting -- hmm... waiting for someone to collapse before dinner was served??

[_Gazelam]

The title and context of the painting are taken from Mosiah chp. 18. Alma the Elder repents of his past misdeeds as a priest of Noah, and begins to teach the people the words of Abinadi.

8 And it came to pass that he said unto them: Behold, here are the waters of Mormon (for thus were they called) and now, as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another’s burdens, that they may be light;
9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—
10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against being baptized in the name of the Lord, as a witness before him that ye have entered into a ccovenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you?

This painting is a modern effort to show more of the culture of the people of the early americas. Past efforts have had an obvious european flavor, and this painting is a step away from that.

[_bcspace]

They are the happy, wholesome, delightful, simple, pure, and fun-loving products of Soviet totalitarianism!

Except that Soviet totalitarianism never was able to produce such products. Satan promises only what God through His Church can give.

I think I was surprised at the racial inclusiveness of the socialist vision as depicted by soviet artists. And then it struck me that in the many examples of Mormon paintings I had viewed earlier, I couldn't recall any depicting multi-racial festivities.

Assuming, for the sake of discussion, that 'Mormon art' is all white, how does that qualify as racism?

Actually you're wrong, only a system that doesn't alienate its labor can produce such products. Another throw-away "bcspace begging the question" moment.

Hmmm... I don't seem to recall anything other than forced gaiety comming from the USSR. And the question remains, how is this racism? By Gadianton's logic, it would seem that many African artists must be racist.

[_Ray A]

One of the curiosities of those who support socialism/communism is that they don't realise the enormous capacity this political system has to totally destroy freedom! Under such a system, they would not even be able to give their opinion about the system they live under!!! This fact just doesn't "sink in". Benign pics of one or two blacks means nothing, as long as they serve Mao/Stalin/Lenin!!

Here's an interesting site: http://www.parade.com/articles/editions ... /Dictators

To the disppointment of many here, Bush does not rate among them. No doubt a CIA conspiracy.

[_Gadianton]

Here is some of the "socialist vision", encapsulated by Lenin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... gewanted=1

Just as merciless was the way Lenin took advantage of the devastating famine of 1921 to 1922 to seize precious objects from the Russian Orthodox Church to stave off state bankruptcy. ''It is precisely now and only now, when in the starving regions people are eating human flesh, and hundreds if not thousands of corpses are littering the roads, that we can (and therefore must) carry out the confiscation of church valuables with the most savage and merciless energy, not stopping $(short of$) crushing any resistance.'' He continued, ''The greater the number of representatives of the reactionary clergy and reactionary bourgeoisie we succeed in executing for this reason, the better.''

And you're complaining about "racism in Mormon art", Gad? Do you ever need a lesson in history!

Yeah, Ray, maybe I'm not getting your point. I don't think I'm required to only be interested in the very darkest deeds of the very darkest people. And I'm not complaining about it, I'm raising the question. Red Herring.

[_Gadianton]

Gaz,

It's funny that we're either left with: no portrayal of non-white ethnic groups or the usual exception of viscious and bloodthirsty dark-skinned Lamanites.

BCS,

The Soviets were wickedly playing God and ripping off the law of consecration, just like Masons ripped off the temple ceremony from Ancient Mormons and perverted it.

P.S., one of the usual claims of apostates is that they felt they were forced to live this outwardly ideal life that never made them happy. But feel free to bear your testimony to the contrary.

[_Gazelam]

Gaz,

It's funny that we're either left with: no portrayal of non-white ethnic groups or the usual exception of viscious and bloodthirsty dark-skinned Lamanites.

Well, the above painting is a step in another direction I think. The church is very global now, and artwork will begin to follow this as well, especially when artwork from around the world begins to pour in more.



"Christ introduces the Sacrament" by Minerva Teichert

Notice both Nephits and Lamanites are shown in their native dress.

3 Nephi chp. 18

[_bcspace]

BCS,

The Soviets were wickedly playing God and ripping off the law of consecration, just like Masons ripped off the temple ceremony from Ancient Mormons and perverted it.

Indeed. So how is not including more than one race in artwork, or even many artworks, racist?

P.S., one of the usual claims of apostates is that they felt they were forced to live this outwardly ideal life that never made them happy. But feel free to bear your testimony to the contrary.

I find nothing contrary there.