whats wrong with a little wine?

[_why me]

Joseph Smith had wine in jail. Jesus changed water into wine not wine into water. The first sacrament was with wine. What's with the Utah church and it's issue with wine. Would someone who drinks a small glass of wine each night be denied a temple recommend.

Alcohol abuse is rampant as is the domestic violence that comes with it. Millions and millions of people, men, women, and children, have been affected by alcohol through such abuse. Alcohol not only abuses the alcoholic but also all those around the alcoholic.

The word of wisdom is wisdom.

[_why me]

The WoW was revelated as Joseph Smith and early church members were getting drunk and Emma Smith said to her husband that she thought it wrong and so that is where it came from.

Almost. Emma was tired of cleaning the mess that came from chewing tobacco and tobacco. She had to clean it up. But yes, drunkenness is not holiness, in my opinion. And so god gave a good call.

I still cringe when I see a catholic priest smoking a cigarette.

[_beastie]

I still cringe when I see a catholic priest smoking a cigarette.

Do you also cringe when you go to an LDS function and see Mormons glutting themselves on sugary, fatty food?

Yes, some people will become alcoholics when they drink alcohol. And some people will become obese due to overeating sugary carbohydrates.

How many health problems are caused by obesity? And which problem is more epidemic in the US culture? Funny how "god" totally missed that one.

[_the road to hana]

The WoW was revelated as Joseph Smith and early church members were getting drunk and Emma Smith said to her husband that she thought it wrong and so that is where it came from.

Almost. Emma was tired of cleaning the mess that came from chewing tobacco and tobacco. She had to clean it up. But yes, drunkenness is not holiness, in my opinion. And so god gave a good call.

God was bending to Emma's will?

I still cringe when I see a catholic priest smoking a cigarette.

Since they don't get to have multiple wives, I'd cut them some slack.

[_guy sajer]

The Mormon obsession with alcohol as a moral issue is yet another example of how it trivializes morality.

Yes, one can abuse alcohol. In which case, the old maxim "moderation in all things" is appropriate. Yes this simple principle has been around at least since the time of Aristotle, centuries before Christ and millennia before Joseph Smith.

I have never yet met an alcoholic who didn't start with moderation. And it here that we find the nut in the nutshell. Moderation is a tough concept with alcohol.

I've never yet met a sex addict who didn't start with moderation.

This is one of the stupidest arguments possible. To wit: people may abuse something, so it is necessary to forbid it.

Why, that's perfectly Talibanesque.

Yes, moderation can be difficult, but it is a long leap from that conclusion to the conclusion that, therefore, a thing must be forbidden.

Of the literally hundreds of millions of people on this planet who drink, a relatively small percentage are alcoholics. And for that you want to place the prohibition of alcohol at the center of your moral universe?

[_Pokatator]

I still cringe when I see a catholic priest smoking a cigarette.

So you take your judgemental Mormon baggage over to judge Catholic priests. You forget that God is the judge if you believe in God. It is just plain amazing to me that this WofW stuff can be taken to such self-righteous limits.

In the big picture that cigarette or glass of wine doesn't save you nor condemn you. The WofW was a suggestion that has taken legalism to the max. The doctrine itself is confusing and obscure and yet it is interpreted with such judgemental exactness. The Mormons as a majority don't even know what's in the doctrine. I bet it doesn't even enter your mind when you eat that Big Mac but you will judge the guy next to you having a cup of joe.

When you combine the message about eating meat in the WofW with Genesis 9:10-15 in the JST Mormons should with out a doubt be vegetarians.

JOSEPH SMITH TRANSLATION
GENESIS 9: 10-15
Man will be held accountable for murder and also for wasting animal life. (compare Genesis 9: 3-9)
10 But, the blood of all flesh which I have given you for meat, shall be shed upon the ground, which taketh life thereof, and the blood ye shall not eat.
11 And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands.
12 And whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for man shall not shed the blood of man.
13 For a commandment I give, that every man’s brother shall preserve the life of man, for in mine own image have I made man.
14 And a commandment I give unto you, Be ye fruitful and multiply; bring forth abundantly on the earth, and multiply therein.
15 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, And I, behold, I will establish my covenant with you, which I made unto your father Enoch, concerning your seed after you.

So, Mr. Catholic with the Joseph Smith avatar, are you a vegetarian? Why not can't you read? Is it OK if I cringe every time I see a Mormon eat a hamburger?

Mormons are modern day self-righteous Pharisees.

[_Tori]

The Mormon obsession with alcohol as a moral issue is yet another example of how it trivializes morality.

Yes, one can abuse alcohol. In which case, the old maxim "moderation in all things" is appropriate. Yes this simple principle has been around at least since the time of Aristotle, centuries before Christ and millennia before Joseph Smith.

I have never yet met an alcoholic who didn't start with moderation. And it here that we find the nut in the nutshell. Moderation is a tough concept with alcohol.

Moderation seems to be a tough concept when it comes to french fries, chocolate donuts, and Diet Coke (have you ever noticed that it's the obese drinking diet soda?) with many Temple Rec. holder's that live around me. :-)

[_harmony]

We all know why the passage commonly referred to as the Word of Wisdom was raised to doctrinal level. It was an economic move on Brigham's part. The Saints in Utah wanted their tea, coffee, beer, tobacco, and wine. And Utah could not support the growing of tea, coffee, hops, tobacco or wine grapes at the time. So all their tea/coffee/beer/tobacco/wine money was going outside the group. Brigham used his office as prophet to forbid their consumption, thereby keeping money earmarked for those commodities within Utah. The same with using grain to make grain alcohols. Brigham wanted the grain used for flour and seed. Best to use the office of prophet to forbid using the grain to make alcohol by forbidding the alcohol.

Smart move on his part. Bad move for anyone who actually believes the WoW is God-breathed.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

It is most likely that Joseph Smith wanted to keep Emma sweet because she knew things and so he was going to listen to her, but then all his new found mateys would be like come on man lets just get wasted and he wanted to so to take away the temptation he said it was said of God that they ought not drink. So he could keep the mates and emma happy chappies.

[_Imwashingmypirate]

It actually says in the WoW I believe that you can drink alcohol that you made yourself.