Jersey Girl wrote:No JAK,
I don't want that. The more I think about "man's" idea of heaven, the more convinced I am that it's not where I want to be. I think that what drives the human spirit (or at least my own) is the ability to impact others, striving toward a goal, working hard to acheive it and the "high" that comes when you have. The opportunity to heal a hurt place in someone or lift someone up. Without the "down" places how will I appreciate the "ups"? The only think that I think lends "bliss" to the human spirit is the building up of each other. If there is perpetual bliss, what need is there to build? What about art? One thing that separates human beings from animals is artistic expression. How can we appreciate the addition of color, form and line if there is no contrast between that and the drabness of the world?
According to the Bible, there is no sea in the eternities. How awful would that be for me never to see the ocean again? And what good is an ocean without waves? How can we appreciate the changes in nature in a place where nothing changes? How can we live in a place where there hypothetically IS no nature when that's what we've loved and lived in all along?
I want skinned knees and tears. I want to feel sorrow so that when the joy comes, I appreciate it. I want to be sick only to feel well again. I want to have a mountain to move so I can work hard to move it and feel satisfied when I do. I want storms to appreciate the sunshine. Sunsets that turn to darkness and back to sunrise again. I want problems to solve and people to comfort. I want fires that burn down forests so I can see the reforestation of natural places. I want to lose people so I remember to appreciate people. I want babies to cry so I can rock them. I want rough places in life so I can appreciate the smooth places. I want things to wear out so I can make them new again.
I don't want to feel satisfied forever. I want to want forever.
I want a chance to change something.
Jersey Girl
Jersey Girl,
What an excellent post!
Without doubt the human heredity and environment produce people who are curious and interested in new, expanded views. We tend to want “to change something.” The best of our lot wants change for the better and for the benefit of others as well as ourselves.
But a static state hardly satisfies the intellect of humans. Contrary to some religious dogmas, each of us is not only unique, but did not exist until the combination of genes and DNA produced us as individuals. None of us is our ancestor. While we are a product of our ancestors, we as individuals have our own identity and, AND the capacity to make our own contribution to those whom we influence by word, thought, deed, and example.
The concept of “forever” is illusive. We cannot comprehend a static state endlessly. And as you so aptly reflect, we would not want it if we had it.
Without question, “The opportunity to heal a hurt place in someone or lift someone up” is not only a joy for those heal a hurt but a joy for those whose hurt is healed.
Of course if one assumes (faith without reason) that heaven is “perpetual bliss,” such a person must necessarily discount intellect of humans.
Intellectually, we are always looking for new ideas, new invention, new solutions. The conventional notions of heaven are generally stuck in the answer to: What do I like most?
Food only tastes good when we are sufficiently hungry to appreciate it. When we are stuffed, another piece of pie is not good. It does not sound good, it would not taste very good, and it would not be good for us.
A notion of heaven where everyone eats into obesity without becoming obese is the notion that many have.
Of course from “the Bible,” people can construct any fiction they wish on virtually any topic. War and killing are justified. Love is justified. Kindness is justified. Debauchery is justified.
For most, heaven is perceived as “a place,” or “a state” without change.
JAK