The Nehor wrote:I doubt it. He said the missionary was in the very southern end of Chile when the fake baptisms occurred. If the missionary was made an AP, he would not still be out in the boonies. He'd work closer to the Mission Home and Office.
Yeah, but he said the missionary was recommended as the prime candidate for AP. He never said whether or not the guy actually made AP.
I'm pretty sure I remember him saying that he was AP and that he was a prime candidate because of this. Also, I seriously doubt the missionary would be stupid enough to tell the Mission President all his baptisms were lies.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Miss Taken wrote:Unless there is an admittance about what is going on and the rights and wrongs of it, nothing will ever change for the better.
There will never be a change, let alone a change for the better, until the current Brethren acknowledge that something needs to change. And that isn't going to happen via this channel. There are channels by which the church changes; making a public statement like this, from an underling, is not acceptable. The Brethren run this church, let there be no mistake. This will be seen as someone overstepping his stewardship. This guy is toast. No wonder he's nervous. He just put his eternal salvation in jeapardy; he publically implicated the church in falsifying numbers; he embarrassed the Brethren. Not only did he jeapardize his own membership, but he probably made it nigh onto impossible for the Brethren to correct the situation or even to look into it, without looking like they don't know what's going on in their church. No one likes to be held up the ridicule this MP just heaped on the heads of the Brethren.
harmony wrote:There will never be a change, let alone a change for the better, until the current Brethren acknowledge that something needs to change. And that isn't going to happen via this channel. There are channels by which the church changes; making a public statement like this, from an underling, is not acceptable. The Brethren run this church, let there be no mistake. This will be seen as someone overstepping his stewardship. This guy is toast. No wonder he's nervous. He just put his eternal salvation in jeapardy; he publically implicated the church in falsifying numbers; he embarrassed the Brethren. Not only did he jeapardize his own membership, but he probably made it nigh onto impossible for the Brethren to correct the situation or even to look into it, without looking like they don't know what's going on in their church. No one likes to be held up the ridicule this MP just heaped on the heads of the Brethren.
And we all know Monson has no sense of humor.
I'm guessing you've never met Monson. He's a pretty funny guy.
The guy wasn't ridiculing the Brethren. Did you listen to what he said? He praised the Brethren for moving Apostles into some of the areas affected by this and the changes that are being implemented. They are being implemented. He also didn't implicate the Church in falsifying numbers. He implicated individual missionaries for doing this. I know of one case where a pair of missionaries did this in my Mission. The Senior companion was disfellowshipped and sent home. The Junior he was training was warned and assigned a solid companion.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
So the Church can not find 210,000 members in Chile, cuts back the number of stakes and wards significantly, but apparently they never removed the names from the roles of the church or else you would have seen a decline in total membership or at least nearly flat from one year to the next. What BS.
TAK wrote:So the Church can not find 210,000 members in Chile, cuts back the number of stakes and wards significantly, but apparently they never removed the names from the roles of the church or else you would have seen a decline in total membership or at least nearly flat from one year to the next. What BS.
Because we don't excommunicate people just because we can't find them? Some are undoubtedly fraudulent but should we purge everyone we can't find and hope none of those people are real?
Besides, who cares? The only people who do are those who base their testimony on Church growth (we'll lose them eventually anyway) and those who are sure the Church is rapidly shrinking and want it to die faster (why in the world would the Church care enough to spend tithing money and member time to do a purge to satisfy these nitwits?)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
harmony wrote:This will be seen as someone overstepping his stewardship. This guy is toast. No wonder he's nervous. He just put his eternal salvation in jeapardy; he publically implicated the church in falsifying numbers; he embarrassed the Brethren. Not only did he jeapardize his own membership, but he probably made it nigh onto impossible for the Brethren to correct the situation or even to look into it, without looking like they don't know what's going on in their church. No one likes to be held up the ridicule this MP just heaped on the heads of the Brethren.
Yeah, he's toast. That's why he's now a temple president.
Clearly the leaders of your Church do… They wish to perpetuate a myth of being a 13 or 14 million member church when its not even close to that.. 2 Hour baptisms ?? Of Brother.. Funny thing there my second Mission Prez ( the biggest suk up GA wanna be ..) would have encouraged the same thing if he thought it would work.
Do you really think that some person who joined after two hours, never steps foot in the building again should be counted as a member? Give me a break. If they can be dishonest in this, do you really trust them to be honest in anything that might effect membership roles? Absolutly not!
Clearly the leaders of your Church do… They wish to perpetuate a myth of being a 13 or 14 million member church when its not even close to that.. 2 Hour baptisms ?? Of Brother.. Funny thing there my second Mission Prez ( the biggest suk up GA wanna be ..) would have encouraged the same thing if he thought it would work.
Do you really think that some person who joined after two hours, never steps foot in the building again should be counted as a member? Give me a break. If they can be dishonest in this, do you really trust them to be honest in anything that might effect membership roles? Absolutly not!
Perhaps a direction the leaders could take is reporting the number of baptisms and the number of active members?
Probably not... As Dr. Lyon said, the leader fear the fragile testimonies.