Does the LDS Church Change Hearts?

[_John Larsen]

I'm suggesting that IF there was a true religion, or a God who gave the truth to human beings, wouldn't one expect these teachings to bring forth goodness in humans?

In other words, I do not think religion helps anyone become more moral or good, in fact I think otherwise in many cases, but I would expect this to be the case if there were a God as claimed by various religions.

...

In my community, religious groups come together and do all sorts of great things for one another and for others in the community. OTOH, clearly there are those believers in religion who completely miss any sense of goodness, kindness, or compassion that one would normally associate with those trying to live a good and decent life.

At this point, I'm not totally convinced Harris is correct, but more and more I do wonder if my perspective is part of the problem as he suggests.

~dancer~

This is precisely why I am indifferent to God. If there is a God, His influence and existence is ambiguous at best. Any good that religion takes credit for is 1. Not manifest in all facets of the religion. 2. Manifest outside of the religion. I think that is the very definition of a non existent set.

The next question is, on average, do religions bring about more good than non religions. I think that question has yet to be answered.

[_Inconceivable]

I wonder...

Wouldn't one think that being a part of God's church would move them toward goodness?

Something seriously seems to be missing.
:-(
~dancer~

You would think it should.

For years, my emphasis in my teaching was a focus upon "becoming a child of Christ", "becoming born again", "no more having a desire to do evil but do good continually", developing charity. And literally taking upon us the name a Jesus Christ.

Mercy and forgiveness have such miraculous effect upon the truly penetant. There is a change of heart. The burden is lifted, a feeling of peace, I've felt it. I wanted to become like whatever it was that gave me this - it became the standard I compared myself to. I wanted to tell others about this. It made me happy.

Though I consider myself an angry man now, it turned me more peaceful, kind, loving, forgiving, respectful, honest, honorable - charitable. This was a common bond with the one called Jesus and people around me noted that I countenanced it.

I think the old wizard that wrote the Book of Mormon had a decent understanding of what it meant to have a change of heart. I'll give some very profound examples if anyone is interested.

For the life of me, I could not understand why most Mormons (and I mean most) had no solid grasp upon the above concepts. Not even a clue. It's probably because they think in their hearts that repentance is for the adulterers, murderers or just pretty much the non chosen"/non-members.. in others words, not them.

The "Preach My Gospel" book used to prepare missionaries has hardly a reference to them. No wonder the church is a supreme failure in this department. They can't teach what they don't really understand. Are you listening, BCspace, Joseph Smith, Coggins and others?

That is why Kimball's book, Miracle of Forgiveness has been such a destructive roadblock in becoming like Christ.

Thanks for the topic, TD.

I have discovered over the years that these concepts transcend religeons and cultures.

[_Inconceivable]

This is precisely why I am indifferent to God. If there is a God, His influence and existence is ambiguous at best. Any good that religion takes credit for is 1. Not manifest in all facets of the religion. 2. Manifest outside of the religion. I think that is the very definition of a non existent set. .

Yes, John. My thoughts exactly.

I would like to think I have (at least at one time) been a member of that non-existent set - a set that, when pressed, would admit that they can recognize others that emulate/countenance like attributes.

Keeping in mind, I resigned from the Mormon church. I think this is what has disturbed the Mormon friends I used to have.

[_Trevor]

The LDS Church doesn't change hearts. The Spirit does.

Do I get a cookie for the doctrinally correct answer?

[_moksha]

I think I am a kinder, gentler person since joining the Church.

[_Trevor]

I am a kinder, gentler person since I became a spiritual counselor earning mega-bucks with my 1-900 line.

[_Inconceivable]

That mighty change of heart also included "no more desire to do evil".

In other words, no white lies, no intentional deceipt - a moral compass not based upon an evaluation of situational ethics, but upon goodness - with the intent to countenance charity.

Who's willing to admit they don't get this?

[_Mercury]

No. It does change money though.

[_Mercury]

I think I am a kinder, gentler person since joining the Church.

You equate personal success with a group that provides nothing but silly secret ceremony, bigotry and insolence? I've heard the same argument used to justify white power movements, MLM's and even Mormonism. Well, especially Mormonism.

[_Gadianton]

Obviously, the church is helpless to do anything above average for people. Since there is no power to the priesthood and all that bologny mumbo jumbo they teach, it's no wonder. But, at the same time, it's also kind of what you make it. People have become better by joining the church, I know a few. If someone is full of life angst and seeking and seeking, and for whatever reason gets suckered in to the gospel, then that person may very well improve by joining the church.