What is it with trolls?

[_beastie]

Here's a paper that attempts to look at the issue academically:

http://www.io.com/~zikzak/troll_thesis.html

This author also states the same problem I'm observed in trying to figure this out:

Due to the nature of the inquiries it was often quite difficult to obtain reliable information from voluntary sources. Many people were very forthcoming and seemed to genuinely enjoy the interaction, however, as the topic itself is inherently mischievous and involves intentional deception, many responses to questions had to be discarded due to dubious truthfulness. Every effort has been made to verify all results and data, but it is hoped that further study can be done in a more controlled environment. Many decisions regarding the validity of responses were entirely subjective.

[_antishock8]

Is it possible that some trolls deliberately disrupt discussions that they believe are damaging to their own cause in some way? Maybe that's their perceived contribution to protecting their personal sacred cow - if they're not up to actually presenting a logical, persuasive argument that protects that belief, the next best thing is to disrupt the entire conversation so that the damaging topic is no longer being analyzed and being found wanting?

That's exactly what's going on, in my experience, with Mormon forums and Mormon trolls. It's a tactic they use to distract a thread, especially when they start to make the thread about themselves, or turn it into an personal insultathon. Non-Mormon trolls are usually vulgar and provocateurs. They're in it to amuse themselves.

Another tactic I've noticed, mostly confined to women, is a group of them will begin to banter inanely with each other and other posters whenever a thread becomes uncomfortable, or they want to accrue a littany of posts that will drown the thread and make it impossible for posters to follow without having to skim through dozens of posts searching for continuity.

Internet behavior is definitely an interesting phenomenon... Definitley very different from real life interactions.

[_beastie]

Here's an interesting thread in which this topic was discussed in the manner I originally hoped:

http://www.barbelith.com/topic/22769

I have the sneaking suspicion that if I asked one and actually got them to take the question seriously, I might get an answer like "I say the things I say because you all need to lighten up." Or "I'm just telling it like it is and you all are persecuting me."

The question then being, why do trolls repeatedly (and many have a history of the same modus operandi across successive message boards) feel the need to position themselves as 'lighteners-up' or 'straight-talkers' in the face of considerable opposition? What is it about these roles that appeals, particularly, to trolls? I suspect it relates, again, to early experiences of relating to one's peers and, as you suggest, putting an ego-protective gloss on what might otherwise be regarded as social failure. More positive to tell oneself 'people are too po-faced/pretentious to handle my edgy humour/no-bullshit approach' than 'people avoid me because I'm irritating'.

Here's one comment from a self-identified troll:

Interesting theories.
But: Trolling is fun.
As someone who has avidly trolled in the past (I grew out of it, mostly) I can clear the mystery up for all y'all.

First off, getting a rise out of people is priceless. There is a distinct exhilirating rush knowing that you've really twisted the knife, gotten the goat. There is probably some amount of sadism to this. Hurting other people for fun.

Analyzing someone for buttons, then carefully pressing them, can also be challenging as f**k. While people tend to fall into certain categories -- with broad, generalized buttons -- everyone is different, and it can take a gentle touch and canny wits to unearth that little something that will really set someone off. We're talking about seriously honing mental muscles that don't otherwise get much use.

I mean... don't any of you enjoy arguing with people, like, in real life? I /love/ it. Coming out on top in a contest of wits is f**king awesome. Notably, most internet trolling is pretty crude, but not everyone's *good* at it, right?

On the other hand, I can definitely see how trolling can be fun. In the above threads, it became almost fun to incite anger. I felt that people were being far too serious, and I wanted to have fun with them. This could be trolling. And it was sort of fun. Instead of trying to think things through, it's easier to just say something stupid and watch people foam at the mouth.

[_Mercury]

Please Read

http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticle.jhtml?articleID=199600005

[_beastie]

That's exactly what's going on, in my experience, with Mormon forums and Mormon trolls. It's a tactic they use to distract a thread, especially when they start to make the thread about themselves, or turn it into an personal insultathon. Non-Mormon trolls are usually vulgar and provocateurs. They're in it to amuse themselves.

Yeah, I think this is an important distinction.

Is the behavior deliberate? It seems like it "should" be deliberate to fit the classic definition of a troll, but is it possible that some people do this as an almost unconscious protective mechanism when something has become too uncomfortable or threatening?

[_beastie]

Interesting article, merc, but do we have any "troll whisperers"?

If you want to fight trolling, don't make up a bunch of a priori assumptions about what will or won't discourage trolls. Instead, seek out the troll whisperer and study their techniques.

(from the article)

[_truth dancer]

Great article Merc... thanks for posting it.

I'm voting for an "ignore" button.

Shades?

;-)

I'm torn between honoring my life time commitment to speak up in behalf of those disenfranchised, abused, and exploited in our communities, and my desire to ignore those who seem to get some sort of thrill in their cruelty.

Speaking up is sometimes like throwing gas on a fire, yet to not do so feels like I am supporting it.

A quote from my childhood: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

~dancer~

OK, so I changed "men" to "people" so I would be included. LOL!

[_beastie]

TD,

I was just about to post something very similar. Speaking out, it appears, simply makes it worse because it 'eggs on' certain individuals to behave even more offensively. And yet this community has to rely on a certain amount of self-policing because of the minimal moderation.

Let's look, for example, at Nehor's comment on this thread:

I don't know. I'm tempted to start a thread analyzing those who are convinced that their personal sensibilities should be respected at all times no matter how inane. I think it would be fun to discuss their need to be correct and feel vindicated when they lash out against those who offend them in any way and the sense of self-righteous satisfaction it brings them to do these things. Nah, sounds boring.

The first thing that jumps out at me that Nehor thinks it's "inane" to respect the sensibilities of those who dislike the mentally handicapped being used as part of a joke.

But aside from that, using his logic, we shouldn't have to refrain from using overt temple content in this forum. That's a "sensibility" that seems inane, given how readily available temple content is in the first place. But it's a sensibility we, as a community, have generally agreed to abide.

So we're trying to reason with certain people who are beyond reason, when it comes to certain points. What is the best course? Is it really to ignore the trolling behavior? Sometimes it might be, but sometimes it really is impossible to do, as with a large picture.

I've stated before I would like an ignore button too, but there are many others here who strongly disagree. They say it disrupts the flow of the thread too much, If I recall correctly. But wouldn't it be used only by those who choose to use it, hence, they are CHOOSING to disrupt the flow?

[_Mercury]

I'm voting for an "ignore" button.

Not just no but Hell no.

[_truth dancer]

I do realize the "ignore" button isn't all that popular. (smile)

I'm actually pretty good at using my own personal ignore feature still, I loved the button at MAD.



~dancer~