Yale and the FARMS Money Trail: A Case Study

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Trevor
_Emeritus
Posts: 7213
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:28 pm

Post by _Trevor »

Gadianton wrote:This is an outrage! Are you telling me that the apologists set out to buy academic credibility?


You should check out Givens' book on the Book of Mormon, which was published, sadly, by Oxford. He presents a sugar-coated version of the case for the antiquity of the Book of Mormon. Hey, it was published by Oxford. Those who know no better might actually believe him on that point.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Dr. Shades
_Emeritus
Posts: 14117
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm

Post by _Dr. Shades »

Here's an excerpt from the sunstone link that John Larsen provided:

In hallway conversations, some attendees, especially those attuned to the internal politics of events of this kind, expressed feelings that while the conference was an important step toward vigorous academic exchange on LDS ideas, it felt in some ways like a “BYU road show,” and that perhaps the influence of their sponsorship created a conference structure (with only LDS presenters, Shipps excepted) that allowed Mormon ideas to be blessed by the glow of an ivy league setting without really having to be subjected to rigorous give-and-take.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Rollo Tomasi
_Emeritus
Posts: 4085
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:27 pm

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

Trevor wrote:I was under the impression that both theology and history were the subjects of the conference, so Quinn would be an obvious choice as a participant. It is also somewhat amusing that Blake Ostler, who isn't even an academic or trained as such, but a lawyer, should be preferred over Mike Quinn. While it is true that he has written on Mormon theology extensively, he has also horrifically wrenched the text of the KFD, and plays the part of the apologist almost as much as the amateur theologian.

You are quite right. The formal title of the conference had the word "history" (or some variation) in it. And as you point out, one presenter, Ostler, is a lawyer by profession, and DCP (another presenter) is certainly no theologian.

EDITED TO ADD:

Here is the official name of the conference: "God, Humanity, and Revelation: Perspectives from Mormon Philosophy and History" (emphasis mine).
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Gadianton wrote:Scratch,

This is an outrage! Are you telling me that the apologists set out to buy academic credibility?


Well, that definitely seems to be the case. You know, something else strikes me as being very suspect---namely, the supposed fact that this conference was "organized" by some graduate student. I find that very hard to believe, and wonder instead if the grad student was some kind of "front man" for whomever was actually pulling the strings.

Ultimately, it seems that those involved in the planning of this conference operated according to the same "stacked deck" policy that governs peer review at FARMS Review.
_Nevo
_Emeritus
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:05 pm

Post by _Nevo »

Gadianton wrote:As Trever pointed out, Quinn is a real historian. Blake, while I like the guy a lot, is not a professional theologin, but at least he has a masters. Niether Kathleen Flake nor Daniel Peterson are qualified at all to speak on theology.

Kathleen Flake has an MA in Liturgical Studies from the Catholic University of America. Her doctorate is in the history of Christianity with a minor in theology. She is very qualified to speak on theology.
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Kathleen Flake is not qualified? Says who?
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_Trevor
_Emeritus
Posts: 7213
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:28 pm

Post by _Trevor »

Dr. Shades wrote:Here's an excerpt from the sunstone link that John Larsen provided:

In hallway conversations, some attendees, especially those attuned to the internal politics of events of this kind, expressed feelings that while the conference was an important step toward vigorous academic exchange on LDS ideas, it felt in some ways like a “BYU road show,” and that perhaps the influence of their sponsorship created a conference structure (with only LDS presenters, Shipps excepted) that allowed Mormon ideas to be blessed by the glow of an ivy league setting without really having to be subjected to rigorous give-and-take.


That is pretty much what I recall. Non-LDS, and even more measured, conscientious LDS scholars rolling their eyes at the more celebratory and less rigorous moments in the presentations. Unfortunately, this kind of intra-faith back patting is not all that uncommon in the world of religious scholarship.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Post by _Gadianton »

Just a minor huh? I guess that's better than DCP, but quinn is still far more qualified.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Trevor wrote:
That is pretty much what I recall. Non-LDS, and even more measured, conscientious LDS scholars rolling their eyes at the more celebratory and less rigorous moments in the presentations. Unfortunately, this kind of intra-faith back patting is not all that uncommon in the world of religious scholarship.


To think: the apologists pumped all this money into buying the credibility and gravitas of the Yale location, and then could not control their glad-handing and back-patting. Such a shame.
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Post by _moksha »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
EDITED TO ADD:

Here is the official name of the conference: "God, Humanity, and Revelation: Perspectives from Mormon Philosophy and History" (emphasis mine).


So then this amounted to black balling Dr. Quinn?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Post Reply