Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

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_gramps
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _gramps »

Harmony wrote:

Thanks, gramps. The story isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, is it?


You're welcome.

No, not to me, it isn't.

But, it doesn't seem to have that effect on so many others.

I wonder why?

(I think Twain (or someone else) had a great quote about the witnesses. Damn, I wish I could remember where I saw that. Anyway,.....)
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_TAK
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _TAK »

gramps wrote:
(I think Twain (or someone else) had a great quote about the witnesses. Damn, I wish I could remember where I saw that. Anyway,.....)


This may be it ?

And when I am far on the road to conviction, and eight men, be they
grammatical or otherwise, come forward and tell me that they have seen the plates too; and not only seen those plates but "hefted" them, I am convinced. I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire
Whitmer family had testified.

http://www.mtwain.com/Roughing_It/17.html
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


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_harmony
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _harmony »

gramps wrote:Harmony wrote:

Thanks, gramps. The story isn't exactly a ringing endorsement, is it?


You're welcome.

No, not to me, it isn't.

But, it doesn't seem to have that effect on so many others.

I wonder why?


The need to believe is very strong in some people.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

gramps wrote:But, it doesn't seem to have that effect on so many others.

I wonder why?

A careful reading of Richard Anderson's Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses might help to answer that question, for any here who might genuinely be interested in understanding.
_The Nehor
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _The Nehor »

Dwight Frye wrote:So, uh, what happens if Droopy, Gazelam, Jason Bourne, Jersey Girl, JustMe, moksha, Ray A, or The Nehor decide to answer you?

Just wonderin'.


Once can only hope he won't read it because he might be offended when I say that any LDS member for more then a year or two would have an answer to this question unless they were (in British terms) thick. So, logically either he is lying about being a member or he's an idiot. I'm going to use the latter as the more likely hypothesis.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_gramps
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _gramps »

TAK wrote:
gramps wrote:
(I think Twain (or someone else) had a great quote about the witnesses. Damn, I wish I could remember where I saw that. Anyway,.....)


This may be it ?

And when I am far on the road to conviction, and eight men, be they
grammatical or otherwise, come forward and tell me that they have seen the plates too; and not only seen those plates but "hefted" them, I am convinced. I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire
Whitmer family had testified.

http://www.mtwain.com/Roughing_It/17.html


Thanks, that's the one. Funny stuff.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_gramps
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _gramps »

Daniel Peterson wrote:
gramps wrote:But, it doesn't seem to have that effect on so many others.

I wonder why?

A careful reading of Richard Anderson's Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses might help to answer that question, for any here who might genuinely be interested in understanding.


Someday, I may buy another Mormon related book. :) Too many other things to read, at the present, however.

In other words, I don't wonder enough to think that something so surprising is awaiting me that I need to get out and read Anderson's work.

I know you think it is an important work. Enjoy it.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_Daniel Peterson
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

You're under no obligation to read Anderson's or any other book, of course.

And harmony, who objects to the idea rather vehemently, certainly isn't.

I simply want to put on record the fact that there are studies out there (largely unread by principal figures here, it seems) that address such topics.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

TAK wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:Wasn't it Isaac Hale who wanted nothing to do with the plates?



I think it was Joseph, who Isaac wanted his daughter Emma to have nothing to do with..

-Given the lying and cheating on his daughter by Joseph, ol' Isaac was a good judge of character.


And yes, nearly all the witnesses were related but not all - I don't think directly to Joseph Smith.


This response doesn't even begin to examine what Hale objected to in regards to Joseph, or any interaction they may have had regarding "plates." It becomes clear how much detail you have personally investigated in regards to this question and I shall view you as an uninformed participant. :)
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_gramps
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Re: Defenders: Why didn't Joseph show Isaac Hale the plates?

Post by _gramps »

Daniel Peterson wrote:You're under no obligation to read Anderson's or any other book, of course.

And harmony, who objects to the idea rather vehemently, certainly isn't.

I simply want to put on record the fact that there are studies out there (largely unread by principal figures here, it seems) that address such topics.


Are there any reviews online of his book of which you might be aware?
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
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