Apostle Christofferson apparently believes in the Flood...

[_Sethbag]

Why the hell would Noah build an Ark if all he had to do was move everyone to the next valley over?

I dunno. Why did Nephi have to chop off Laban's head when God could have killed Laban? Why did Nephi have to get the Brass plates when God could have, and in fact did, reveal scripture to them directly and have them write it down themselves? God's ways are not man's ways (although I can hear Sethbag saying that God's ways are too much like man's ways).

Thou sayest. ;-)

[_Danna]

No, the stupid theory is the one in the Bible, where God tells a man to build a giant ship and save all the animals and plants that would be needed to repopulate planet Earth, because a hundred billion gallons of water were going to crash down from outer space for 40 days and nights, killing every living thing that didn't climb into a gigantic wooden boat. Noah built the ship using stone to bronze age technology (before the Tower of Babel) plus some heavenly wisdom, and if you believe the even more stupid Joseph Smith version of the story, Noah did all of this in Missouri (USA) and then floated around the globe to the Middle East where the good ship is traditionally believed to have landed . Somehow the millions of plant and animals species we know today were born from the biomass that Noah could cram onto the boat and maintain viably for what must have been several months, and they all landed in specific locales like Antartica (penguins), Africa (Gorillas, Chimpanzees, African Elephants, etc), Asia (Orangutans, Indian Elephants, etc), New Zeland (Moas, Kiwis), Australia (Koalas, Platapuses), etc. etc. In all, this stupid theory is supposed to replace belief in much of modern geography, geology, and biology and more.

I mean, this is a very stupid theory.

NZ has more than unique birds as a non-flood testimony. We split from the Gondwanaland during the mesozoic. So we are pretty much a mesozoic time capsule. Other than mammals who could swim or fly, we have NO NATIVE LAND MAMMALS.
Our land fauna is birds and reptiles, like the tuatara that is my avatar (I am an NZ natural history fan in case you didn't guess)

Niches normally occupied by rodents and the like are taken by insects, birds, and lizards. Like this cute wee weta:



We have the world's most annoying parrot - an evil little bugger - lives in the alpine regions and is carnivourous and decked out in camoflage green. Causes havoc when food is scarce and they come down and attack sheep in the highcountry.


When they are not stripping cars:

What was Noah thinking when he created a unique environment totally conforming to a non-existant mesozoic of 65M years + ago, devoid of modern animals. He even picked the right colours - our birds are not pretty - they only do that because mammal predators can't see all their colours. But other birds can, and with the mean mutha birds around here, everyone is hiding.

[_ludwigm]

Still, when Apostle Todd Christofferson was speaking, I recall hearing him refer to the Flood as an actual, historical event, and referred to the Tower of Babel as a historical event, having to do with the same city from which the Babylonians came.

I believe them to be historical events. In fact, I don't think it's possible to be a believing LDS person without understanding them to be historical.
...

Yes. We all know, this is Your private social problem.

[_Gazelam]

Seth,

Look who else believes in a global flood:

[_Danna]

As I understand it, this is doctrine:



http://www.LDS.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?v ... ntLocale=0

I agree wth bcspace, you can't believe in LDS doctrine as presented in the standard works (esp. moses) if you don't believe in a worldwide flood and the confusion of the languages at the tower of Babel.

[_moksha]

Look who else believes in a global flood:

Good point. Surviving the flood is a very strong archetype.

[_sunstoned]

I also agree with bcspace. To fully believe LDS doctrine as taught by modern Prophets and by Joseph Smith himself you have to accept the world wide flood and the confounding of languages at the Tower of Babble as actual events. The most correct book clearly identifies the Tower of Babble as the starting point of the Jaridite migration. It also collaborates the Biblical account of the confounding of the languages. Because Joseph Smith identified the Garden of Eden as being located in Missouri, a world flood is necessary to explain how the Ark landed in the mid-east.

None of these teachings posed a big problem in the nineteenth century. But in the twenty first century this kind of stuff is just embarrassing.

[_Wheat]

and the Tower of Babel. I didn't listen to very much of Conference this time around. It's been long enough since my apostasy that my wife no longer tries to push me into paying attention to it. Instead, I spent most of my time reading "Anathem", by Neal Stephenson. Still, when Apostle Todd Christofferson was speaking, I recall hearing him refer to the Flood as an actual, historical event, and referred to the Tower of Babel as a historical event, having to do with the same city from which the Babylonians came.

So, apparently this newly minted Prophet, Seer, and Revelator is still willing to go on record as believing in the historicity of what are demonstrably mythological stories.

I'm just waiting for the apologists to come and go khafodocles* on me with quibbles about how he referred to the Flood, but he could actually have been talking about just the local event of, say, a river overflowing its banks, or even more dramatic (think Black Sea or whatever), without the whole Noah's Ark story. Uhuh. Whatever. Think whatever you need to think to help you sleep better.

*to anyone who would understand this term, I recommend "Anathem"

I thought Christofferson's talk was the best one in General Conference.

I agreed with everything he said. And I'm convinced that everything he said was based on truth or will eventually be shown as true.

I love and value science, technology, and intellectual progress of all kinds. But I have a healthy skepticism of science's pretensions to answer all questions. I'm convinced that it is just plain wrong on many things that it trumpets as *proven facts*.

[_Sethbag]

So, Wheat, you believe that "science" will eventually be proven wrong about the Flood, and that it really did happen, as described in the Bible? And that "science" will someday be chagrined to find that the variety of languages we have on Earth today started when a people speaking the common Adamic tried to build a tower to reach Heaven, and God confounded all of their languages and dispersed them?

[_Ray A]

So, Wheat, you believe that "science" will eventually be proven wrong about the Flood, and that it really did happen, as described in the Bible? And that "science" will someday be chagrined to find that the variety of languages we have on Earth today started when a people speaking the common Adamic tried to build a tower to reach Heaven, and God confounded all of their languages and dispersed them?

This is in full force, Seth.

"Creation Science" Journals and Magazines

Creation science is based on the presupposition that the universe and life on earth were created by God as described in the Bible. This perspective also fully acknowledges that supernatural interventions have occurred during the history of life on our world. Events such as the Noachian deluge, and the Tower of Babel were supernaturally derived and therefore evidence, such as the geological column, can not be interpreted naturalistically. Biblical events provide critical insight into human history, and creation science literature may be the best source of material necessary to counter naturalistic misinformation.

Nothing is impossible:

`I can't believe that!' said Alice.

`Can't you?' the Queen said in a pitying tone. `Try again: draw a long breath, and shut your eyes.'

Alice laughed. `There's no use trying,' she said `one can't believe impossible things.'

`I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. `When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

This is true, too:

`Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall:
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the King's horses and all the King's men
Couldn't put Humpty Dumpty in his place again.'