Jesus

[_Ray A]

The thing I find weird about Jesus is this:

For 2,000 years everyone has been asking, "who was Jesus?".

And 2,000 years later, there's still no answer.

D&C 93

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;
2 And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;
3 And that I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one—
4 The Father because he gave me of his fulness, and the Son because I was in the world and made flesh my tabernacle, and dwelt among the sons of men.
5 I was in the world and received of my Father, and the works of him were plainly manifest.
6 And John saw and bore record of the fulness of my glory, and the fulness of John’s record is hereafter to be revealed.

Yeah, Gaz, I tried that too. In fact as a true believer it was one of my favourite scriptures. Never saw his face, had some good intuition I could easily put down to other factors, and I'm afraid to say that the Jesus of faith for me is no more valid than my 96 year old uncle who has devotedly followed Meher Baba since the early 1960s. He did the whole hog, left wife, went to the US, wrote books on Baba, paid several visits to him in India.

The only thing I think about all this is that there's some kind of "religion virus" in my family. No doubt I've had it. And it has been in the process of complete extermination over the past twelve months. The only thing I feel a bit sad about is that so many people will never get rid of this virus.

These are modern day scriptures that tell me nothing about the historical Jesus. About 90% of it is in your mind and imagination. The other 10% is what you can glean from good scholars who've studied the historical Jesus. And as I've said before, Jefferson had the right idea, cut out the crap, and keep what's beneficial as a "good moral guide". (Tolstoy too, I might add.) There ain't no magical saviour who walks on water and rises from the dead. He's the creation of religious fiction.

[_Gazelam]

Ray,

You don't have to deal solely with the historical Jesus. You have the testimonies of the many modern Prophest and Apostles who have seen them. Men like Boyd K Packer and Jeffrey R Holland who have seen and spoken with him and can testify that the Scriptures are true in their account.

If you want to know Christ, get to know the Holy Ghost first.

Gaz

[_Gadianton]

Gaz, BKP has no style. There is no way Jesus would waste his time with him.

[_Ray A]

Ray,

You don't have to deal solely with the historical Jesus. You have the testimonies of the many modern Prophest and Apostles who have seen them. Men like Boyd K Packer and Jeffrey R Holland who have seen and spoken with him and can testify that the Scriptures are true in their account.

If you want to know Christ, get to know the Holy Ghost first.

Gaz

Gaz, I appreciate your sincerity. But let's just say I've "been there, done that". If I could give you my brain for just 30 minutes I could bestow a lifetime of information that has led me to where I am (some will disagree, of course, that I even have a brain). I was in your shoes 30 years ago, Gaz. In spite of disagreeing with many of your views, I appreciate who you are, and what you stand for. I really do. But I think there's a whole lifetime of difference between us. The "realisations" haven't come from scripture or revelation. The realisations have come from raw life-experience, which includes an enormous amount of reading and study, and observing people.

I'll reiterate my long-held view: If Mormonism makes you a better person, then I support you 100%. The problem is that I see too many who turn into narrow-minded intolerants. And that has always been my "crucible". As much as I like my LDS friends, when I watched one of them blindly "follow the prophet" without giving serious consideration to facts, I have to back off and ask: "What am I really supporting?"

I see no resolution. If you are a TBM, you will naturally gravitate to views I consider over-zealous and often uninformed. I suppose that's the whole history of religion. I still haven't forgiven the Catholic Church for burning Giordano Bruno at the stake (for which we still have no apology, because he's a lesser figure than Galileo). It's a story that makes me cry to this day, and it's a story that has always made me wary of what I'm supporting.

[_Gazelam]

Ray

As much as I like my LDS friends, when I watched one of them blindly "follow the prophet" without giving serious consideration to facts, I have to back off and ask: "What am I really supporting?"

I see no resolution. If you are a TBM, you will naturally gravitate to views I consider over-zealous and often uninformed.

I know what your saying. I really do.

There are those who have a hard time being in the world but not of it. There is a balance we are supposed to find that makes us well rounded and intelligent individuals. I think that is why things like Home teaching and missionary splits are very important. Ivory tower worship makes zealots out of people, you internalize instead of functionally applying the gospel.

Righteous living is supposed to be enjoyable and a source of happiness. The real struggle is in finding pleasure in the work. True religion is work and sacrifice. How many people relaly want to get home from work only to get showered and head back out to do your home teaching. Attitude plays a major factor.

There is a lifestyle that can be lived that generates happiness. It includes family and hard work and love and study out of the best books. Many people find this lifestyle without religion, I don't question that. But being in the church allows one to get the big picture as to what it all means, and the Gift of the Holy Ghost to help one maintain the path.

I understand your frustration, but the real thing is there. don't give up on it just because you don't like the way some have chosen to apply it.

Gaz

[_Gadianton]

Jesus was basically a hippie. If he lived today, I have no doubt his choice of transpertation would be a VW van. It seems he did prescribe a commune lifestyle that doesn't scale beyond a few followers. But the, maybe he knew, deep down, that it couldn't be any other way. I like Jesus. And I think it's sad that most Christians today are far bigger fans of his idiosyncratic display at the temple -- a display that he never endorsed for his followers to emulate -- than his tear inspiring Sermon on the Mount. I would have liked to be there with Jesus that day, on the Mount, talking about love and peace.

[_bcspace]

Perhaps Jesus only wanted to spread the wealth among those who had joined his little cult.

Jesus was obviously a capitalist. Instead of government comming to resdistribute your wealth, you could choose to sell.......

[_Ray A]

Jesus was obviously a capitalist.

LOL.

LDS Doctrine Defined.

In 30 AD, Jesus was a capitalist.

LOL.

You are too funny.

[_Danna]

Ray,

You don't have to deal solely with the historical Jesus. You have the testimonies of the many modern Prophest and Apostles who have seen them. Men like Boyd K Packer and Jeffrey R Holland who have seen and spoken with him and can testify that the Scriptures are true in their account.

If you want to know Christ, get to know the Holy Ghost first.

Gaz

BKP has seen and spoken to Jesus? When, where, why? has he spoken of this, details details please.

I would be very interested to read of BKPs account of meeting and speaking with Jesus.

[_bcspace]

Jesus was obviously a capitalist.

LOL.

LDS Doctrine Defined.

In 30 AD, Jesus was a capitalist.

LOL.

You are too funny.

And correct as well seeing as how you failed to form a cogent argument against to go with your post.