So what do Ca gays do now?

[_Some Schmo]

Here is the approximate Mormon (LDS) Population, within the State of California:

749,490.

( Link: http://www.newsroom.LDS.org/ldsnewsroom ... california )



And here is the number of People, within the State of California, Who Voted Yes On Proposition 8:

5,897,336.

( Link: http://vote.sos.ca.gov/Returns/props/ma ... 000008.htm )



There are 5,147,846 more People, within the State of California, Who Voted Yes On Proposition 8, than there are of the total approximate Mormons, within the State of Californa.

Wow... so it turns out all the money the Mormons spent on campaigning for a 'yes' vote was not a waste. It really worked.

I can understand why gays are so pissed at the Mormons.

[_RAJ]

Some Schmo Wrote:

Wow... so it turns out all the money the Mormons spent on campaigning for a 'yes' vote was not a waste. It really worked.

I can understand why gays are so pissed at the Mormons.

Oh, they're pissed, and justifiably so, but I hope that phase is just about over. If high profile LDS buildings continue to be targeted, it only feeds Mormon persecution complexes.

And about the money, ALWAYS follow the money. Mormons and the YESon8 effort did a good job. Mormons are extremely effective organizers. Besides being somewhat inept, I don't think the NOon8 side had any idea of the freight train that was coming at them. When they finally woke up (and in the end, actually raised more money) it was too late.

I'll finish with this letter from the SL Trib:
______

http://www.sltrib.com/Opinion/ci_10949461Look in mirror

Public Forum Letter
Article Launched: 11/10/2008 04:23:00 PM MST

Scott Trotter, speaking for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, says "it is wrong to target the church and its sacred places of worship for being part of the democratic process" ("Proposition 8 outrage," Tribune, Nov. 8).

For four months, the church's "sacred places of worship" have been turned into Prop. 8 precinct offices, its members "called" as campaign workers, its ward lists used as voter rosters. And it is "wrong" for those whose civil rights they helped revoke to "target" them?

Trotter further said, "No one on either side of the question should be … subject to erroneous information." Yet, from those "sacred places of worship" church leaders and members disseminated information that The Los Angeles Times called "a series of misleading half-truths."

Mormons raised the lion's share of the money, provided the vast majority of the organizational structure in support of Prop. 8, canvassed the neighborhoods, staffed the phone banks, held a huge satellite broadcast pep rally, and got out the vote for Prop. 8's narrow victory. If Trotter and those for whom he speaks wonder why Mormon "sacred places of worship" have become the focal point for the backlash, look in the mirror.

Nadine R. Hansen

Cedar City

[_Jason Bourne]

I can understand why gays are so pissed at the Mormons.

I can too. But the outrageous protests, vandalism, hate filled signs at the LDS temple, destruction and vandalism of property owned by LDS that donated in support of Prop 8 are really full of the bigotry so many here say the Mormons are guilty of. Where is the out cry for the way those opposed to Prop 8 are now acting from so many of you? Did LDS get violent. do mass protests, destroy gays property? Do you think they would if the prop failed? Keep in mind the LDS and other supporters of Prop 8 did nothing illegal at all. This was a valid item that could be voted on. The Church did nothing illegal either. You may not like that leaders encouraged PRIVATE DONATIONS AND OTHER ACTIVE SUPPORT of Prop 8. But they were well within their rights and their reasonig was not hateful not bigoted nor homophobic in spite of the rhetoric here that is was. But what we are now seeing from those against Prop 8 certainly is.

[_Jason Bourne]

Oh, they're pissed, and justifiably so, but I hope that phase is just about over. If high profile LDS buildings continue to be targeted, it only feeds Mormon persecution complexes.

Actually this is a form of persecution and targeted hatred. The Mormons did nothing illegal here.

And about the money, ALWAYS follow the money. Mormons and the YESon8 effort did a good job. Mormons are extremely effective organizers. Besides being somewhat inept, I don't think the NOon8 side had any idea of the freight train that was coming at them. When they finally woke up (and in the end, actually raised more money) it was too late

Yep they are.

I'll finish with this letter from the SL Trib:
______

http://www.sltrib.com/Opinion/ci_10949461Look in mirror

Public Forum Letter
Article Launched: 11/10/2008 04:23:00 PM MST

Scott Trotter, speaking for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, says "it is wrong to target the church and its sacred places of worship for being part of the democratic process" ("Proposition 8 outrage," Tribune, Nov. 8).

He is correct.

For four months, the church's "sacred places of worship" have been turned into Prop. 8 precinct offices, its members "called" as campaign workers, its ward lists used as voter rosters. And it is "wrong" for those whose civil rights they helped revoke to "target" them?

I think this overstated the use of Church facilities. Doe the letter writer have direct proof of time, activity and so on? Or was it more some letters read over the pulpit, other encouragement, some meetings by a bishop with some members and so on. My guess is most the activity was out of members homes not on Church property. But I could be wrong.

Trotter further said, "No one on either side of the question should be … subject to erroneous information." Yet, from those "sacred places of worship" church leaders and members disseminated information that The Los Angeles Times called "a series of misleading half-truths."

Uh,,,sure......THe LA times evidence of this is what?

Mormons raised the lion's share of the money, provided the vast majority of the organizational structure in support of Prop. 8, canvassed the neighborhoods, staffed the phone banks, held a huge satellite broadcast pep rally, and got out the vote for Prop. 8's narrow victory. If Trotter and those for whom he speaks wonder why Mormon "sacred places of worship" have become the focal point for the backlash, look in the mirror.

Nadine R. Hansen

So Nadine justifies vandalism and violent protests full of hatred and bigotry because the Mormons who were well within their rights were successful at raising money and supporting something they believed in? By this reasoning Mormons should go out and do the same to gay people property.

[_Some Schmo]

I can too. But the outrageous protests, vandalism, hate filled signs at the LDS temple, destruction and vandalism of property owned by LDS that donated in support of Prop 8 are really full of the bigotry so many here say the Mormons are guilty of. Where is the out cry for the way those opposed to Prop 8 are now acting from so many of you? Did LDS get violent. do mass protests, destroy gays property? Do you think they would if the prop failed? Keep in mind the LDS and other supporters of Prop 8 did nothing illegal at all. This was a valid item that could be voted on. The Church did nothing illegal either. You may not like that leaders encouraged PRIVATE DONATIONS AND OTHER ACTIVE SUPPORT of Prop 8. But they were well within their rights and their reasonig was not hateful not bigoted nor homophobic in spite of the rhetoric here that is was. But what we are now seeing from those against Prop 8 certainly is.

Well, they got violent with some protesters yesterday, as we saw from the news clip.

And again, I have no sympathy for a tax-exempt organization who tries to stick their noses in legal affairs. If they paid taxes, I wouldn't have this complaint. I would say the same for any such organization, which is why all the crap about the 10 commandments being displayed in public buildings, mandatory prayer in schools, one nation under god, etc is a valid target for criticism. If organizations want to push the special interest agendas, they better pay for that right.

And how is it bigoted, per se, to protest the organization that provided the primary funding for this campaign? I'm not sure I understand you're reasoning on that, but I'm open to your interpretation.

[_RAJ]

Jason wrote:

This was a valid item that could be voted on.

I agree that Mormons did nothing illegal but I don't agree that this was a valid item to be voting on. What is the old saying --- words to the effect "democracy is just 2 foxes and a chicken voting on what to have for dinner".

Mormons of ALL people should understand and appreciate this aspect of our government. Thankfully for them and all other minorities, we don't live in a strict democracy but a constitutional republic. I don't know how it will play out but whether or not prop 8 was valid has yet to be decided. It looks like that will happen pretty soon.

[_RAJ]

Jason wrote:

I think this overstated the use of Church facilities. Doe the letter writer have direct proof of time, activity and so on?

Jason, I want to save you from making a public fool of yourself. Nadine Hansen knows ALL about Church involvement, from the inside out. Look her up, whatever you think of her opposition to your Church, you'll see she's very well informed.

[_Ray A]

Protests and demonstrations are a right in all free societies, violence is not. The pen is still mightier than the sword, and I liked this letter to the Tribune:

Thanks, Mormons

I congratulate Mormons on their Proposition 8 victory. I am impressed with their willingness to donate time and money to a cause in a state where less than 2 percent are of their faith.

With all the competing issues and causes, such as poverty, the environment and finding a cure for cancer, I'm grateful they chose to give so much of their hard-earned money to banning the rights of gays and lesbians. The Catholics and other conservative Christians couldn't have done it without them.

As a Utah native, it is comforting to know that there are Mormons at home always looking out for my family's best interests. I hope Latter-day Saints will continue to assist in righting California's moral compass by helping us eliminate other impure activities and behaviors. Perhaps they could send some nice kids from Brigham Young University to mow down the vineyards, board up the Del Mar racetrack, and turn off the power at the Indian casinos.

I cannot thank them enough for making sure California's families are safe and straight.

Karla Luff-Lopez

Temecula, Calif.

[_Jason Bourne]

And again, I have no sympathy for a tax-exempt organization who tries to stick their noses in legal affairs. If they paid taxes, I wouldn't have this complaint. I would say the same for any such organization, which is why all the crap about the 10 commandments being displayed in public buildings, mandatory prayer in schools, one nation under god, etc is a valid target for criticism. If organizations want to push the special interest agendas, they better pay for that right.

My guess is the Church stayed well within the legal limits for Tax Exempts. But people can challenge this if they wish and do it through legal means.

nd how is it bigoted, per se, to protest the organization that provided the primary funding for this campaign? I'm not sure I understand you're reasoning on that, but I'm open to your interpretation.

Peaceful protests are not bigoted. Protest that vandalize church property and activities that vandalize private persons property how donated to support prop 8 and use signs that have bigoted statements on them are. Signs that say things like "Ban Mormons, Go Back to Utah, Morons, Mormon Scum" are bigoted. Signs that say vote no, Equality for all, and so on are not. Painting obscene and hateful remarks on the temple fence walls are bigoted. Vandalizing members property is bigoted. Screaming obscenities while protesting is bigoted.

[_Some Schmo]

Peaceful protests are not bigoted. Protest that vandalize church property and activities that vandalize private persons property how donated to support prop 8 and use signs that have bigoted statements on them are. Signs that say things like "Ban Mormons, Go Back to Utah, Morons, Mormon Scum" are bigoted. Signs that say vote no, Equality for all, and so on are not. Painting obscene and hateful remarks on the temple fence walls are bigoted. Vandalizing members property is bigoted. Screaming obscenities while protesting is bigoted.

I see. It's not that they're protesting but the way they're doing it that you object to. Fair enough.

I agree that they would be better served by sticking to the issue at hand and not introducing invective sentiments. Their protests would be much more effective.