The Great Moderatorial Experiment, PART ONE: The set-up

[_Yoda]

If this experiment is going to run, one thing I would suggest is that you place an additional board rule addressing faux moderation. If this experiment is going to work, that really can't be tolerated.

Edited to add---Also, all new Moderators will need access to the Moderator Forum, and we will need to give them a "crash course" in the Phpbb software involved.

[_Dr. Shades]

Shades, I think I have mentioned in the past that I am not a big fan of ad hom's.

However, I have always been a proponent of your vision for the board, and free speech. For the purpose of this experiment, it would probably be a good idea for me to remain on your "side" of this.

Thanks for your input. That settles that.

If this experiment is going to run, one thing I would suggest is that you place an additional board rule addressing faux moderation. If this experiment is going to work, that really can't be tolerated.

That will be an issue for the new moderators to decide upon, sans my input.

So, who else volunteers to take upon themselves the mantle of temporary moderatorship?

[_Ray A]

I'll do one more clarifying post on this subject. I don't agree with Shades' new set-up, but if it has to go for a month it's no skin off my nose. Whether or not I keep posting has nothing to do with the nature of the board, only personal issues. If I have a problem, it's my problem, not yours. I've said before that free speech can be a pain in the ass, but it's the only way to find the truth. Mormon Discussions, as irascible as it can be at times, has a unique set-up which I think no other Mormon-related board has. If you don't like it, or don't like personal criticism, don't bang your head on the door on the way out.

I selected some quotes:

I am thankful for all the complaining I hear about our government because it means we have freedom of speech. ~Nancie J. Carmody

The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. ~Tommy Smothers

Censorship reflects society's lack of confidence in itself. It is a hallmark of an authoritarian regime. ~Potter Stewart

If you don't have this freedom of the press, then all these little fellows are weaseling around and doing their monkey business and they never get caught. ~Harold R. Medina

Books won't stay banned. They won't burn. Ideas won't go to jail. In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. ~Alfred Whitney Griswold, New York Times, 24 February 1959

And the best for last:

I believe in censorship. I made a fortune out of it. ~Mae West

[_beastie]

All right, I’m back to address this one concern, since I feel like I’m one of the people who inadvertently triggered this. I admit that I PMd a couple of people and told them I was leaving the board due to the toxic environment. I mainly wanted to give them my email address in case they wanted to keep in touch. I didn’t intend my exodus to be some sort of “the board better change” message, but since I’ve been around for a while and have enjoyed conversations with many of you, perhaps I owe more of an explanation now that it has partly turned into that.

First, I had no desire to start a “I’m leaving and this is why” thread. I don’t see any point to it. If a board doesn’t continue to entertain me or meet my needs in some way, I don’t think that necessarily indicates something is wrong with the board and expect it to change to suit me. I think that the board doesn’t suit me and I should move on. I’ve done it in the past, repeatedly. I used to post quite a bit on RFM and after a while pretty much left it behind, with few exceptions now and then. Next, I posted at ARM before leaving for reasons not dissimilar to why I’m leaving here. I used to post on the Fringe and eventually got restless with that one, too, although that was more due to the fact that it had a very limited number of active posters which limited the conversations. Of course, Z left me rather than vice versa. ZLMB is probably the one board I could have remained on indefinitely, as long as my interest in Mormonism continued, before it was deliberately destroyed. It had a wide and varied group of posters, and moderation that at least tried to be even-handed and unbiased. Personally, unmoderated boards don’t suit me for long. Some people can moderate their own behavior quite well, but others clearly cannot, and it tends to set an overall tone for the board. by the way, I’m not claiming to have perfect behavior and can benefit from moderator reminders as well. MAD was intolerable to me due to the overtly biased and, frankly, often silly moderating. So leaving a board that no longer suits me is hardly unusual, given my history. I usually only post on one board at a time regularly, as well, which is part of the reason I’ll just leave instead of hanging around and posting less.

Yes, part of my dissatisfaction with the board has to do with the allowance of repeated personal attacks, but it really is only part of it. As I mentioned, I prefer boards that do have a certain level of moderating, although without open bias. I dislike moderating that is used to “even the playing field” between two opposing viewpoints, which is what MAD does. But boards that aren’t moderated or censored at all tend to devolve into what ARM was at one point – it was difficult to have a meaningful conversation due to all the often ridiculous and extreme “noise”. The board that I think was best suited to my temperament was ZLMB, at its high point. It had a moderating team with both believers and nonbelievers, and while it can’t be practiced perfectly, the goal of the moderating team was to have clear boundaries that could be applied without bias.

However, this kind of moderating comes with a very high cost. First, as others have expressed, there is a great deal of difficulty in coming up with an objective, easily applied standard in the first place. It's not impossible, just very difficult. ZLMB was always trying to sort that out, and frequently made changes. Those changes were made in response to posters’ criticisms – criticisms that were sometimes legitimate, hence resulting in the change. But being a moderator on a board like that is a hell of a job. It is thankless, and could consume every free moment if you let it. I know due to being a moderator on Z. Maybe if I didn’t have a full time job, three children, and a boyfriend I wouldn’t have minded the amount of time it ended up requiring. Maybe if I didn’t already work with children who whined about rules and standards I wouldn’t have minded working with adults who whined about rules and standards. Maybe if I hadn’t tried moderating at the point when one of my sons became very ill, it would have been a different experience. But the stress of moderating was horrible, the complaints endless. It was a thankless job. I quit after about eight months and will never moderate another board again. Perhaps my unwillingness to help moderate explains why I prefer to just leave a board rather than try to change it if I’m unsatisfied. Really, unless I’m willing to pitch in and help, then I should just shut up about it. So while this road you’re going down may turn out to be worth it, I just warn you it does come with a price tag.

But the lack of moderating is only one reason I’m leaving. The other is, as others have stated, that eventually there reaches a point where there just isn’t that much to talk about, in regards to Mormonism, anymore. After my own curiosity and interest in Mormon topics began to abate, I continued posting for lurkers’ sake. But I do believe this board isn’t conducive to lurkers, due to the frequent personal attacks. Some of the behavior on this board – and off the board, in chats, for example – constitutes bullying behavior, and at times, borderline abusive behavior. I’m not saying that in the “you need to change” manner, but rather in the “why I don’t think posting here helps lurkers” manner. Lurkers will probably be discouraged and leave. Plus, I do believe that there is more than enough information accessible on the internet regarding LDS truth claims already, so I’m probably not really “needed” by lurkers. I think the one fairly unique perspective I can offer is in connection with Mesoamerica, and I’ve already set up my website and blog to take care of that, so I consider my social obligation paid.

To be brutally frank, the bullying/borderline abusive behavior practiced by a few on this site – behind the scenes as well as in open posts – was probably the final straw for me. I was already getting bored with Mormonism as a primary topic, and the noise to signal ratio was tiring. If not for discovering additional troubling information about behind the scenes behavior, I may have just have dwindled away, reducing the number of posts I produce. But I really don’t have any interest in further association with people who have engaged in the behavior I have in mind (and no, I will not give details). Yes, that number of people is relatively small, but still enough to permanently affect my feelings about this board.

So if you all want to make changes because you really think it’s best for the board, then go for it, and I wish you well. I particularly wish the moderators well, because they are in for one heck of a thankless job. Obviously, I can only speak for myself as just one of the Harmony Exiles, but I don’t want or expect the board to change on my account. It just no longer suits me. It may still suit many others. Do what you want, but I do not want to be factored into this decision as one of those who recently left.

Good luck to all of you and best wishes for a contented and productive life! I hope you won’t see me around on any Mormon topic board (my goal is to give it all up), but knowing my own weaknesses, you may well spot me somewhere else – at least until I get tired of that one, too. ;)

[_Scottie]

Thanks, Beastie. I know that I will certainly miss you. You have always been one of my favorite posters. Good luck to you!

[_rcrocket]

In honor of Beastie, here is her post to me, one of my favorite here:

Beastie: "this guy is a misogynist arsehole and from now on I will treat him even worse than our roughest posters ever dreamed of. Hey, bob, it's a miracle you have seven kids. I guess that means your wife laid back and thought of England seven times. God knows I'd never let a misogynist touch me."

The toxin decries the toxicity.

[_beastie]

Beastie: "this guy is a misogynist arsehole and from now on I will treat him even worse than our roughest posters ever dreamed of. Hey, bob, it's a miracle you have seven kids. I guess that means your wife laid back and thought of England seven times. God knows I'd never let a misogynist touch me."

One note bob. At least you're not lying again and saying I exposed personal information about your family. You have a pattern of bullying behavior on this site. If you were alone, I could ignore it, but you're not alone.

Moreover, I admit that my behavior has not always been the best, hence my previous statement:

by the way, I’m not claiming to have perfect behavior and can benefit from moderator reminders as well.

[_rcrocket]

Beastie: "this guy is a misogynist arsehole and from now on I will treat him even worse than our roughest posters ever dreamed of. Hey, bob, it's a miracle you have seven kids. I guess that means your wife laid back and thought of England seven times. God knows I'd never let a misogynist touch me."

One note bob. At least you're not lying again and saying I exposed personal information about your family. You have a pattern of bullying behavior on this site. If you were alone, I could ignore it, but you're not alone.

Moreover, I admit that my behavior has not always been the best, hence my previous statement:

by the way, I’m not claiming to have perfect behavior and can benefit from moderator reminders as well.

You exposed personal information about me on this site.

But I don't want to see you leave. Something about fish in a barrel.

[_beastie]

You exposed personal information about me on this site.

This is a malicious lie, one you repeat without one shred of evidence. You cannot provide one shred of evidence, because there is none. It is a lie you have fabricated out of thin air. In fact, it is libel. This is just one example of your bullying behavior.

But I don't want to see you leave. Something about fish in a barrel.

I refer readers to the Massacre thread to witness how well you deal with "fish in a barrel".

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7605&hilit=massacre

[_Ray A]

I've had lots of clashes and head banging with beastie in the past, but I have to honestly say that she is one of the posters who always draws me to the board. Agree or not, you could always count on substance worth reading at least twice (like her long post above).

On another note, I came across this link the other day:

Cyberspace as Dreamworld.