bcspace wrote:I'd abandon the discussions altogether and use the lessons out of Gospel Principles. I would also wait until a potential investigator finished those lessons which would also therefore entail a wait of about a year of Church going, tithe paying, etc. before baptism.
This is already what the JWs do. And there's no child baptisms. The children basically decide when they are ready to be baptised.
Not only is the weight of LDS INC on his shoulders, keeping all of the due paying members happy, but he also has the entire economy of Utah resting upon LDS Inc.
The tiny and fragile economy of Utah would implode if LDS Inc failed.
Does Thommy want to go down in the history books as the man who told the truth AND destroyed the economy of the state of Utah?
Probably not. He has no choice but to continue the facade.
No format of the missionary discussions nor presentation of LDS theology will make the great information whore(internet) go away.
The best growth for LDS Inc has always been within the wombs of the female members.
Where in the world do you get the idea that Utah's economy is dependant on LDS, Inc???
Hell, Utah's economy would THRIVE with the extra 10% that would be put into circulation if the church folded. Sure, a few hundred CoB employees would be out of a job, but that would hardly decimate the economy. I wonder what they would do with all the empty chapels?
No, I'm afraid that even if Monson announced in GC that the church was false, he would quickly be replaced and the members would be told that he was removed to fulfill the promise that God will never lead the church astray. The members would all feel pity for the fallen prophet and life would go on.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
I tell them screw it and we all take the rest of the year off. The kickoff party is at southern exposure (the only titty bar I remember in the SLC area)
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
bcspace wrote:I'd abandon the discussions altogether and use the lessons out of Gospel Principles. I would also wait until a potential investigator finished those lessons which would also therefore entail a wait of about a year of Church going, tithe paying, etc. before baptism.
I agree.
If we look at goal of the discussions as a series of lessons to prepare people to make a lasting commitment to the Lord and the Church, and to specifically remain an active, contributing member, then we should move beyond the checklist-mentality of "discussions" and instead require a change in heart and lifestyle that shows readiness for such a commitment.
At the very least, they should be regularly attending Church, living the law of chastity and word of wisdom, and show an awareness of the lifestyle they will be expected to live. If all investigators regularly attended Church for at least a few months, we would probably have a much smaller problem with retention. But we would have a commensurate reduction in overall baptisms, and the responsibility would be on the wards to teach and integrate potential converts, since missionaries would get transferred before someone could go through the whole process.
bcspace wrote:I'd abandon the discussions altogether and use the lessons out of Gospel Principles. I would also wait until a potential investigator finished those lessons which would also therefore entail a wait of about a year of Church going, tithe paying, etc. before baptism.
I agree.
If we look at goal of the discussions as a series of lessons to prepare people to make a lasting commitment to the Lord and the Church, and to specifically remain an active, contributing member, then we should move beyond the checklist-mentality of "discussions" and instead require a change in heart and lifestyle that shows readiness for such a commitment.
At the very least, they should be regularly attending Church, living the law of chastity and word of wisdom, and show an awareness of the lifestyle they will be expected to live. If all investigators regularly attended Church for at least a few months, we would probably have a much smaller problem with retention. But we would have a commensurate reduction in overall baptisms, and the responsibility would be on the wards to teach and integrate potential converts, since missionaries would get transferred before someone could go through the whole process.
I could jump on board with this.
a la Scottie, at some point I would add some historical and doctrinal tid bits.
Josephs varying accounts of the First Vision. Polygamy and Josephs revelation and involvement. How that doctrine still applies in Temples today. WoW Blacks and the Priesthood. And how to tell the difference between Opinion and Doctrine.
I'd change the missionary experience entirely. No more discussions. 40 hours of service per week. All missionaries would be service missionaries except for ward missionaries.
Investigators would be sent to ward missionaries. Classes would be held as suggested above (twice a week, an hour each, at least a year's study). Classes to include the nature of God and the Atonement, salvation and exaltation, LDS church history, the canonization process, where the money goes, the doctrine and holes in the doctrine, the temple, the concept of leaders as servants and stewards.
Ward missionaries could hold no other calling.
I'm not seeing this change as terribly difficult, except that change of this nature requires rethinking a basic concept of LDS culture, and I'm not sure our leaders are capable of such leadership. This change would require that they actually develop a relationship with God sufficient to gain the ability to receive revelation again instead of simply relying on their own lamp. I suspect that is beyond them. I suspect it's been at least one and probably several generations since we were led by men with that kind of relationship with God. (our track record is spotty at best, when it comes to prophecying.)
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
I wonder what the result would be if we had a longer group introductory class like the Catholics, where class members would come to us expressing interest, and a sponsor missionary would be assigned to each initiate? It might mean less new dunks, but it would help to ensure longer lasting members, who are better informed. Additionally, it would decrease the annoyance factor of many who answer the door on a Saturday Morning and find themselves faced with eager young Missionaries.
We could still have missionaries performing Vista Volunteer type services (like Harmony suggested) that would tremendously raise the image of the LDS Church.
moksha wrote:I wonder what the result would be if we had a longer group introductory class like the Catholics, where class members would come to us expressing interest, and a sponsor missionary would be assigned to each initiate? It might mean less new dunks, but it would help to ensure longer lasting members, who are better informed. Additionally, it would decrease the annoyance factor of many who answer the door on a Saturday Morning and find themselves faced with eager young Missionaries.
We could still have missionaries performing Vista Volunteer type services (like Harmony suggested) that would tremendously raise the image of the LDS Church.
Just a thought.
.
No one expresses interest. Believe me.
Maybe from family/friend pressure while the potential convert is emotionally weak one would qualify for your potential cantidate criteria.
Missionaries are greatly advantageous to the numbers game they play. Mission presidents church careers depend on the numbers the missionaries produce. Its a giant game of chess they play. Its a game. It also creates a conduit for the elite Mormons to guarantee success in what is a very cutthroat business. Missionaries serve a purpose but it has nothing to do with converts.
The missionary program is there to facilitate the complete welding of the ankle irons missionaries make by themselves to the church. The elite network and forge business relationships, etc etc etc. Once again, the benefits of the missionary program have nothing to do with converting people.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning