YWs New Value "Virtue".

[_harmony]

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with teaching young women (or young men for that matter) to be virtuous... as long as repentance is a part of that teaching. None of this licked cupcake or nail in the board or chewed gum BS.

There's just one problem with repentence...it might make you square with The Lord but it doesn't help with your neighbors. Once you're [fill in the analogy for tarnished] you're that for life in the eyes of people you have to live with. Especially so in judgmental societies where public face appears to be important.

Virtue is as old as Eve (anyone notice there was no record of a marriage for Adam and Eve?). Or rather, the lack thereof.

The church is trying. Give them credit for that. The problem, there isn't a corresponding emphasis on virtue for the boys.

And when non-LDS hear about LDS numbers, they cry... literally. Back when I was doing my undergrad, I used to read sociological studies, just for fun. One I found was done with 3500 LDS seminary students on the east coast. In order to participate in the study, parents had to sign off on not asking to see their teen's answers. If they didn't sign, the youth didn't participate.

So... results in are and tabulated: 25% of LDS teenage girls had had sex by the time they were sophomores. Oh, horrors! Much hand wringing, much guilt laid on parents. Meanwhile, nonLDS adults who work with nonLDS teens were weeping with frustation. How the hell had the Mormons managed to have only a fourth of their youth be sexually active, when the non-LDS numbers were running around 75%?

It's all a matter of perspective. But Mormons need to emphasize virtue to the boys as much as they do to the girls. Sauce/goose, definitely sauce/gander.

[_Moniker]

Hey, Harmony, the statistics are sort of alarming about teen pregnancy. I walked in on my girls earlier watching something called The Secret Life of an American Teenager. I watched for a few minutes and then shut it off and started talking to them about one of the girls on the show being pregnant.


I wonder how teens that get pregnant in the Church are treated.

[_moksha]

I have always thought it strange to use the word virtue and virginity as synonyms.

[_harmony]

I wonder how teens that get pregnant in the Church are treated.

As sinners of the filthiest sort. Sidelined. Condemned, especially if they keep the child.

[_TAK]

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with teaching young women (or young men for that matter) to be virtuous... as long as repentance is a part of that teaching. None of this licked cupcake or nail in the board or chewed gum BS.

Sure promote the idea to youth that they should be wise stewards of their minds and bodies.

The problem with Mormonism’s version of repentance is LDS male leaders are fixated on young women’s virginities and then they are the grantor of a remission of sins following a complete and detailed confession. It’s really disgusting.

[_Scottie]

Sure promote the idea to youth that they should be wise stewards of their minds and bodies.

The problem with Mormonism’s version of repentance is LDS male leaders are fixated on young women’s virginities and then they are the grantor of a remission of sins following a complete and detailed confession. It’s really disgusting.

I agree. Some of the teaching are borderline abusive. The church really needs to take a hard look at these teachings.

I'm not sure that the young men are getting a pass as seems to be alluded to here. I was alway taught that masturbation is a horrific sin. I've told this story before. In my teen years, I went through a long period of depression. I COULD NOT stop masturbation, even though I knew that 1) if ye have done it in your hearts, ye might as well have done it and 2) adulterers are next to murderers in the eyes of God. Therefore, in my teenage mind, I was one step above a murderer in God's eyes.

For me, these teachings coupled with my lack of willpower to stop masturbating desensitized me to sex altogether. I figured, hell, I'm already no better than a murderer. I might as well have sex. It's not like God is going to condemn me any worse than He already is.

[_TAK]

I agree. Some of the teaching are borderline abusive. The church really needs to take a hard look at these teachings.

I'm not sure that the young men are getting a pass as seems to be alluded to here. I was alway taught that masturbation is a horrific sin. I've told this story before. In my teen years, I went through a long period of depression. I COULD NOT stop masturbation, even though I knew that 1) if ye have done it in your hearts, ye might as well have done it and 2) adulterers are next to murderers in the eyes of God. Therefore, in my teenage mind, I was one step above a murderer in God's eyes.

For me, these teachings coupled with my lack of willpower to stop masturbating desensitized me to sex altogether. I figured, hell, I'm already no better than a murderer. I might as well have sex. It's not like God is going to condemn me any worse than He already is.

As a teen my bishop never brought up chocking the chicken.. but the Bish was also my Dad.. But you are proly quite right about young men too. I remember as a new missionary - it was comical they way they squeezed confessions out when I went throught the Mission home ..

[_harmony]

Sure promote the idea to youth that they should be wise stewards of their minds and bodies.

The problem with Mormonism’s version of repentance is LDS male leaders are fixated on young women’s virginities and then they are the grantor of a remission of sins following a complete and detailed confession. It’s really disgusting.

I agree. Some of the teaching are borderline abusive. The church really needs to take a hard look at these teachings.

I'm not sure that the young men are getting a pass as seems to be alluded to here.

I'm not going to argue that you're wrong, scottie. But how many times are the young men instructed that they are responsible for the virtue of the girls? Girls get it from the pulpit in GC, that they're walking porn, for pity's sake. That it's the girls fault if the young men stumble and can't go on their missions. At least the boys only get hammered in priesthood meeting, not every frickin' time they are together. And how many times are the boys held responsible for the pregnancy? Seems to me like the girls are the ones hammered on repeatedly to keep their legs closed, while the boys get a slap on the wrist about keeping their zipper up.

[_Droopy]

Translation: Ladies cross your legs until you get our permission to uncross them. Don't think about it...just do it.

This message co-sponsored by the LDS Church and Nike.

Mindless. Utterly mindless.

Standard fare in this intellectual ghetto unfortunately.

[_Jason Bourne]

The church is trying. Give them credit for that. The problem, there isn't a corresponding emphasis on virtue for the boys.

I am not sure what YM classes you go to but I can assure you as a person who was a YM in the LDS Church, one who was a YM pres and one who has served in two bishoprics that virtue and sexual purity is emphasized as much with the boys as it is with the girls. I am not sure where you get this strange idea that it is not.