Anyone offer a little advice?

[_moksha]

When you choose to believe, you are forsaking truth in a knowable form. Don't worry about it so much. Faith can help sustain you more than knowing the laws of thermodynamics.

[_Nightlion]

But I am struggling. (by the way, Still going to Church--sit in the back and try not to be bothered by how little people seem to know about their church, remembering that I was there.)

I recognize your username from years ago. So you must have been exposed to the real gospel, the real Mormonism and the doctrines of Zion from me down the road. If you fail to do what Christ asked which has for ever been lost on the LDS Church but was still possible then you can only a wave on the sea driven and tossed unable to resist the world and being overcome by it.

There is only one gospel and that is that faith in Jesus Christ will bring you to desire his mercy and grace in an hour of judgement of your own choosing when you will seek a remission of your sins and seek to born agaon and enter into the kingdom of God upon the earth.

No that kingdom is severed from the LDS Church and Zion is driven into the wildeness. But you can repent and be part of it still. But you have already rejected that by me. Why be disheartened by apostate apologist who never repented themselves or ever began to enter into the real kingdom of God on earth? The Mormons have forsaken the gospel and pretend to another which is not any gospel at all.

These savages of Satan, propped up around here, will do your soul no good at all. If you want advice read your Book of Mormon again and forsake the world and take no thought for your life for a month or two until you repent and bring forth an acceptable sacrifice like unto those found in the Book of Mormon. Only if you sanctify your seeking like this will God respond. This secret is something the LDS never discovered. Now you know more than all of them. That is the advice Christ gave in the Sermon on the Mount. Take no thought for your life and seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all things will be added.........later. Partake of the tree of life for yourself and forget about the mockers (here) and the mist of darkness(LDS Church) or the river of filthiness (the world) It has always been between you and your God. Sanctify this and it will bring you to light and life in Christ your Savior.

[_why me]

So I have been around a while and mostly lurk but I have had my moments of involvement here. The short story is that it has been quite a while now (couple of years) since I first started down the road of doubt. I know this will disappoint some, but it was not because I wanted to sin, but because I read RSR and saw a different Joseph Smith than the one I had known through currciculum materials. So I then read FARMS/FAIR stuff and was struck by the number of things that the apologists admitted to be true. Like many others, I spent hours and hours and hours and then more hours devouring all that I could. Some things made me very angry, I must admit. In fact, I am still disturbed by the Church's failure to be forthcoming about so many things (in the current Joseph Smith manual, on the Joseph Smith website, etc.).

I know it is hard for the apologist/TBM mind to believe this, but this is the very last thing I wanted for myself--to conclude that people are LDS not because it is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, but because they want it to be true or because their parents insist that they believe its true or because the pressures surrounding them are so great that they simply have no choice but to believe it's true.

When read RSR, I thought that the book was great. It showed Joseph Smith in a veryf human light. And of course, above all else, he was a human being. Many people on meeting Joseph Smith could not believe that he was a prophet. They had different interpretations of what a prophet should be. Many did not want to see a human prophet. And yet, prophets are very human with all the faults of any human being. And so, RSR was a great book for me.

The church materials are not designed to discuss doctrine that the LDS church thinks is important. Manuals in Priesthood or Relief Society are designed to do anything else. If the church would include all things about Joseph Smith, the manual would be at least 1,000 pages long. However, in the new Joseph Smith Papers published by the LDS church, you will see a more complete Joseph Smith.

Of course, you sin, we all sin. Nothing wrong in sinning. It is recognizing the sin and trying not to sin no more. But no one is perfect. Many TBMs believe because they received a witness that the Book of Mormon is true. And that is why they continue to believe. And I am sure that it was the same for you. Faith is doubt. And certainly the posters here attempt to foster doubt which is not very hard to do when it comes to faith since both go hand in hand. Very few people can last without that testimony, regardless of pressure from parents etc. Heck, if I didn't receive that witness, I certainly wouldn't be hanging here or at MADb. But that witness was too strong to just to ignore. But without it, the LDS church would mean nothing to me except good people doing what they believe is right before god.

I also remember you at MADb. Have you gone over there with your problems? You can post on the social part of the forum. No debate there, just good hearted posters. Good luck!!

[_Runtu]

mms,

I can definitely relate to what you're going through, and JSM is right: follow your conscience, and you'll be fine. That was the hardest lesson for me because I didn't want to upset my family relations, and I didn't want my wife and others to think less of me. But ultimately I had to make some decisions about what I wanted to do with the rest of my life.

A really good therapist helped me see that by "going with the flow," I was slowly effacing my identity as an individual. She told me that I needed to get to the point at which being true to myself was more important than my relationships with others. Harsh as that sounds, that's what it took for me to stand up for myself and stop pretending I was OK with continuing on in the same old path.

It sounds to me that you are experiencing a lot of pain because your heart is telling you one thing, but your head realizes that there are costs. As others have said, there's no hurry, and it's best to take things slowly and cautiously.

[_mms]

Runtu said:

A really good therapist helped me see that by "going with the flow," I was slowly effacing my identity as an individual. She told me that I needed to get to the point at which being true to myself was more important than my relationships with others.

This is interesting, as I have always been the kind that refused to hide who I was -- for better of for worse. I was the guy who, if it appeared you were giving me too much credit, would make sure you knew that I did not deserve the kind of credit I was being given. I did that almost to a fault (or maybe to a fault). It was very important to me that I be understood for who I am, and not simply who you want me to be based on that talk I just gave in Church, etc. Now I feel like I have a mysterious cloud around me. No one gets to know what I am thinking or struggling with because I have been advised by leadership not to talk about it. I have become somewhat reclusive when I was anything but. I do not comment in PQ because the comments that come to mind tend to be things like, "yeah and when Joseph Smith sent them on missions, he married some of their wives." I have a disease--or is it a "syndrome" (see Ash). I am sidelined (by my choosing). I cannot be "who I am" because "who I am" is, apparently, the worst possible thing one can be in the "Mormon" world--an apostate. Indeed, anyone who was present for that lesson on apostates in the Joseph Smith manual (must've been a couple of months ago or so), and agrees with what it taught, believes that I am evil, having been overcome by Satan's influence.

Why Me -- yes I was at MAD, but got banned for disagreeing with DCP. I was there looking for help at first, but got slammed right off the bat by Pahoran and Selek, etc. and it all went downhill from there. To be candid, my experience at MAD simply highlighted the amount of fear out there of educated members who struggle after learning the actual history of the Church [Edited this line to be more precise with my point]. The degree of fear added to the argument of the critics--indeed, why fear the history if it is harmless and easily explained away?

I joined MDB in October 2007, so been here about a year and a half now. This has been about a three-year process for me so far.

[_BishopRic]

mms, I remember your thoughtful posts from previous years, and as the others said, I feel your pain.

I mostly lurk now and then, but this thread grabs me. Most of us former-mormons here continue with some interest talking about our spiritual journey because the change is so dramatic...AND painful. It's been well over a decade for me, and I've mostly given up being an "ex-mormon" and choose to be human today, but because of my 40 years in the church -- with a history of much church leadership, it is always interesting to hear of others' stories.

I think most of us have a gradual transition, and mine was quite long mentally, intellectually, and spiritually. The church does a great job of locking us into a lifestyle that is near impossible to leave comfortably. I rode the fence for quite a few years thinking it was best for everybody.

Then I had an injury, and found that the pain meds following surgery allowed me to escape my emotional pain of living two lives. I became dependent on them to sleep, and to even get relief at the maddening church meetings I was attending (and conducting). Eventually I was caught, and the real hell began. Fast-forward, I ended up losing my professional license for a time, losing my marriage, house, business...pretty much everything of material worth.

It was the best thing that could have happened to me. I was forced to start a new life -- one that was mine. And it really was starting over. I found that when you are open to the possibility of everything that was said to be "right" may be "wrong," and vice versa, a new paradigm of life emerges...and it is beautiful and simple. It is also full of hope, purpose, and joy. Relationships are much more real, and in the moment -- not the next life!

This past year I spoke at the Exmormon conference on the topic of "Awakening from the Addiction," and if you're interested, send me a PM and I'll send it to you.

Anyway, all our paths are unique. Nobody can tell you what to do. But I found it helpful to read and listen to other's stories and cherry pick what seems right for you. I sincerely wish you peace!

[_Inconceivable]

mms,

I resigned the church last year April about a month after one of my sons returned from his mission (I have 2 more expecting to leave this summer). My conclusion was that I could not represent something that did not truthfully represent my beliefs in morality, virtue, integrity and even faith. I yet believe in my convictions to those principles that are not unique to Mormonism.

By my active affiliation, I felt used. Like a human shield of the massive damage control arm of the church.

I felt dirty and tainted after becoming aware of the lies. As if I were sinning to remain. Resigning membership lifted a burden from my shoulders. It was a relief to my soul.

I have paid a heavy price for this peace and, no doubt, I will continue to be summarily hammered for my decision. Honestly, I've never felt so lonely and forsaken. But I refuse to trade it for living a lie.

You can only be as true to everyone as you are to yourself.

The best example you will set in life is the one you set for yourself.

Strangely, this was a principle taught to me all of my life within the Mormon church. The church taught me it was time to leave.

[_Jersey Girl]

Hello mms,

I'm not LDS nor have I ever been. I've read stories similar to yours over and over again on boards like this. I will likely write again here, but I want to ask you...

What are your talents? Your gifts? Your passions? Your strengths?

There are qualities that you have that are uniquely your own. Something that you feel driven to do? If you can find that out, can you let it drive you forward? What is it that you love? Can you grow that part of you and can you let it lead you?

Just a few thoughts...

:-)

[_AlmaBound]

Of course, you sin, we all sin. Nothing wrong in sinning...

... Faith is doubt.

Black is white, up is down, they're coming to take me away.

Your incoherence is deafening.

[_bcspace]

I know it is hard for the apologist/TBM mind to believe this, but this is the very last thing I wanted for myself--to conclude that people are LDS not because it is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, but because they want it to be true or because their parents insist that they believe its true or because the pressures surrounding them are so great that they simply have no choice but to believe it's true.

That may be true for some, but critics of the Church haven't come upon anything that gainsays LDS truth claims with any degree of certainty so I remain TBM.