Am I at risk of becoming a first wife?

[_Jersey Girl]

"Real" dad or not, does Danna's husband have the right to introduce even, say, 1% disruption into this child's psyche?

No. He has no "right" to the child whatsoever.

Here are some questions to mull over...

1. Will bio-Mom allow him visitation with the child?
2. What would her motives be for allowing him visitation?
3. Can the Dad legally disallow bio-Dad visitation? (I say, "yes")

The situation is a total can of worms. I'm going to hold back on a few things until Danna has had a chance to say more if she chooses to.

[_Danna]

Thanks for your thoughtful replies, you guys have raised a number of issues I hadn't thought of. Figuring out relationship stuff is a bit of a stretch for me (Aspergers) There are heaps of things to think through, especially Jersey Girl's points. Yes I am anti-polygamy, and not suggesting anything too weird, but the parallels - my husband sort of having another 'family' if we made contact, are there.

My boys are just coming up to seven and five. The youngest is non-verbal autistic (my genes, not my husband's!) and the two don't play together - the oldest is protective, but we are trying to make sure he won't be his brother's keeper when the youngest gets to school. The other boy is about four I think. I had fertility treatment (just surgery) to get pregnant, and the doctor asked Steve if he would consider being a donor - I don't think he would have thought of it otherwise (donors don't get paid or anything over here - apparently most donors are medical staff! which should be good for the sperm pool)

Relationships are agreed by all parties beforehand - essentially the donor specifies whether he can be contacted if the child or family wants, and the family must agree in order to use that donor. I think my husband put an 18 years from birth limit on releasing his details. We are not in any contact, the agency just tell my husband - once a year in a Christmas card- of any offspring. They only made fresh contact because he had excluded donation to sole parents. Which I guess means that the woman's exhusband will not be involved with the younger sibling of the first child. The woman specifically wants the same donor, and agency policy is to use the same donor for one family. If we did forward contact details, it would be up to the other family to decide whether they wanted contact.

Having thought things over, I was initially thinking that I would probably be OK with contact, and my oldest would have a neurotypical (not autistic) brother, but there are heaps of things I had not considered.

I had not thought anything odd in the woman wanting another same donor child - although, come to think of it she will be paying a lot of money to get the same genetic father - presumably she was not the one with the problem, so she could probably find a volunteer

Anyway, thanks again for your comments. We have two issues - allowing use of the donation in spite of changed circumstances, and the dropping limits for contact. I am starting to think changing our contact instructions would be a bad idea.

[_Jersey Girl]

Danna,

I know you have Aspergers and I know you have a high level of ed. in behavioral analysis.

Let me put this in terms of what you know and understand well, in the hopes that it will be more relevant to you.

What is the function of your husband's plan?

[_Jersey Girl]

Danna,

I had the computer completely shut down and then I thought of a way to run this whole thing through a filter and put it in the simplest of terms that I can think of...so I came back!

Critical to a child's emotional and psychological well being is a sense of belonging.

Belonging to a family, a community, a class, a church and so on.

A positive self image, self confidence, self esteem, feelings of security grow from that sense of belonging.

If your husband follows through on his plan, the very question the child will be faced with is:

Who do I belong to?

And when your own children think of their Dad in terms of the child, they may well ask themselves:

Who does MY DAD belong to?


Do you see how it rips at the very core of security for the child?


.

[_Dr. Shades]

Yes I am anti-polygamy, and not suggesting anything too weird, . . .

Oh yes you are suggesting something "too weird."

They only made fresh contact because he had excluded donation to sole parents. Which I guess means that the woman's exhusband will not be involved with the younger sibling of the first child.

What makes you think that? "Sole parent" could just as easily mean, in this case, "divorced parent whose ex-husband is utterly devoted to his son and will do everything possible to see to his well-being."

The woman specifically wants the same donor, and agency policy is to use the same donor for one family. If we did forward contact details, it would be up to the other family to decide whether they wanted contact.

Don't unlock that door. If you unlock it, she might open it. DON'T DO IT.

Having thought things over, I was initially thinking that I would probably be OK with contact, and my oldest would have a neurotypical (not autistic) brother, . . .

THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT YOUR OLDEST. This is also about the other child, too. You must think of HIS psychological well-being, too.

Besides, does introducing your oldest to a new sibling mean that he magically WON'T still have an autistic brother?

but there are heaps of things I had not considered.

With all due respect, that's very, VERY obvious.

I had not thought anything odd in the woman wanting another same donor child

There isn't. There are, however, lots of things EXTREMELY odd in contacting each other and disrupting all three children's lives forever.

We have two issues - allowing use of the donation in spite of changed circumstances, . . .

DON'T DO IT. Single people have absolutely no business bringing a child into the world, whether or not they already have another child. Don't make it easier for her. Besides, won't it be unfair to the second child, knowing that his or her older brother has a father--the ex-husband--but he or she doesn't?

. . . and the dropping limits for contact. I am starting to think changing our contact instructions would be a bad idea.

THANK GOD. Don't just start to think it, either; THINK it and PRACTICE it.

[_moksha]

Danna, this is one of those issues where the "what could go wrongs" need to be very closely examined. Lawyer talk would certainly be advisable.

[_harmony]

Single people have absolutely no business bringing a child into the world, whether or not they already have another child.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I know several single women, both gay and straight, who have chosen to bring a child into the world with no male in the household, and they are very good parents to their children. It's not ideal, but often neither is the opposite. I think it depends on the parenting skills of the individual, not the relationship itself. Just because a child lives in a 2 parent household doesn't mean the parents are good parents.

[_Danna]

Thanks again everyone, we had been off thinking separately. It was a bit of an unexpected turn to the donation thing and caught us off guard. Which goes to show the twists and turns that can happen with an initially 'innocent' situation that involves humans. Hubby has also thought about the financial side of things and we are leaving the contact situation unchanged (no details available till child is 18). Donors are protected from financial claims at the moment, but who knows what might happen with future legislation if Hubby has been in contact.

Ironically, my brief research several years ago when he was approached to donate turned up some studies that showed that families using IVF had a higher than normal divorce rate. I did tell him he risked his biological offspring ending up in single parent families - but every family runs that risk. NZ is not flush with donated sperm - each donor is limited to three or four families If I recall correctly and there are no incentives/payment. It is common to see ads for sperm or egg donors in parenting magazines. We were so pleased to be parents in our late 30s and donation seemed a nice thing to do. We were warned that future law changes may permit adult children to know about their donor, and I still don't have any problem with that. I think in the US, donors get paid and there are no restrictions on the number of children they can contribute to. We are way too small a country for that!

[_Danna]

Danna,

I know you have Aspergers and I know you have a high level of ed. in behavioral analysis.

Let me put this in terms of what you know and understand well, in the hopes that it will be more relevant to you.

What is the function of your husband's plan?

Yes I do understand this way of looking at it . The initial function was simply to sort of 'pay it forward' after we had our kids - we got married in spite of my telling him I was not able to have kids (endometriosis), our initial plan was to adopt. As it turned out there had been some advances in micro-surgery and medicine since I had been told that.

He had been quite insistent on only donating to a husband/wife combination (I thought he should not rule out gay couples). I think his concern that any child he contributed to had a father resulted in the option being raised. We have no idea what the situation with the other couple is - whether the ex-husband remains involved or not. However, lots of families go through this sort of thing, and kids without one parent do fine in a loving, secure family.

We were quite surprised at first, and I probably should have left some time to think about things before posting. It raised all sorts of polygamy parallels that set off a few of my triggers

[_Pokatator]

Danna

I was raised in a somewhat similar situation. My "family" had 3 sets of "half" siblings, not exactly a donor situation but one child was out of wedlock, kept "secret" for a while then introduced and then about 12 years later was determined not to be the child of my step-dad.

My summation, your situation will be very difficult on the adults involved. BUT it has the potential to be hell for the kids involved. In my situation I think every kid was f---'d up in some manner, especially the little girl who found out she was not "blood". She was a mess before she found out, her mother was a nut case. I knew my grandparents, every uncle and aunt on my "fathers" side but I was 32 years old before I ever met him. I even knew 6 half siblings from him. He maintained a relationship with my 4 year older brother for his whole life, yet I never knew him. He was a sperm donor to me, not a father he was a nut case.

I know my situation is not your exact situation but in my opinion your situation has disaster written all over it. Why does this other woman even know who the donor is? Why does your husband even know who his "donation" went to? This is a poorly ran donor program, again, in my opinion.

Your kids will likely resent the time your husband spends with the other kid and vice versa.

Don't under estimate the ability for adults to use kids for "not so good of means" when times get tough. When the other mother thinks her child is neglected or not being treated the same or any other slew of issues. Divorces can be ugly but this has the potential to be worse. My mother was carrying me when she split with my bio-dad, he took it out on me for 32 years and I was the one that had the cajones to initiate that contact and I settled it as an adult with someone that was not an adult even after 32 years. I wish I had never met him. My step-dad was my real father but he had baggage, the little girl. He tried to make things up to her and then neglected us. It was ugly for everyone.

It all looks and sounds so nice on the surface but underneath it is all a can of worms.

In my opinion you have:

.005% chance of win win
.005% win some, lose some
99% chance of lose lose