The Anti-Atheist: Part 1

[_Nightlion]

When you are fighting for you life in a billowing surge of wave after crashing wave of godhating faith swamping all you can see is atheist as you grasp at straw after disappointing straw to help you draw a clean breath. Can a brother get bouyed up around here?

Small wonder Christ asked, when he comes again, "shall he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8 The variant franchizements of piety fail of faith. By deciet they refuse to know the Lord. Jeremiah 9:6

I have no idea what you're talking about, Nightlion. Could you answer my question about Dale's post? Here it is again:

Can you point out to me what specificially says "atheist" to you?

Sorry, I though you were being ironic. Kidding me. I just make the lump assumption that anyone who equals belief in God to belief in the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause is atheits. Am I wrong? Is he more a witch who knows that there is a God and enjoys blasphemy too much to resist?

[_Uncle Dale]

...I just make the lump assumption that anyone who equals belief in God to belief in the Easter Bunny,
Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause is atheits. Am I wrong?
...

Only "wrong" because you did not read what I said.

I asked whether or not we should correct people's mistaken beliefs in ANY gods?

For example -- there was a god named Dagon in ancient Israel.
If I meet somebody who worships Dagon today, am I allowed to
correct that person's mistaken beliefs?

UD

[_Jersey Girl]

Sorry, I though you were being ironic. Kidding me. I just make the lump assumption that anyone who equals belief in God to belief in the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause is atheits. Am I wrong? Is he more a witch who knows that there is a God and enjoys blasphemy too much to resist?

I think you knee-jerked a reaction to seeing a list of comparisions that many atheists use to equate a belief in God to the Easter Bunny, etc, without taking into consideration the totality of his post, Nightlion. I think you shut down after the first few comments without reading the entire post.

Now, I can't say for certain whether or not Dale is "more atheist" as you say, but that's not how I took his comments and I'll try to demonstrate that in a new post.

[_Jersey Girl]

I do not believe that the Easter Bunny exists -- but for those adults who truly put
their trust in such fantasies, I might take the time to try and help them see reality.

I do not believe that the Tooth Fairy exists -- but for those adults who teach others
such fantasies, I might take the time to try and set them straight.

I do not believe that Santa Claus exists (although based upon some slender historical
recollections, coupled with a desire to extend good will, Yuletide cheer, etc.). If I
encountered an adult who thought Santa Claus was real, I might take the trouble to
try and convince that person of their error.

Same thing goes for believers in a flat earth, a living Elvis, or peepstone money-digging.

In the above, he lists multiple examples of what he believes are "fantasies", in which cases he would try to challenge the belief. But what you OVERLOOKED, Nightlion, was the question he posed here:

There are about 10,000 various "gods" made up or believed in by human beings over
the years. From your point of view, is it wrong to try and disprove ANY of them?

Uncle Dale

He is asking you, considering the multiplicity of gods in which people believe or have believed in, do you think it's wrong to disprove ANY of them?

I'm assuming that you're LDS, Nightlion. In the missionary work of the LDS church, it is the goal to reach the world with the restored gospel, bringing what LDS believe to be the truth to the world.

In bringing what one believes is "the truth" to the world, it automatically follows that LDS are discounting the many other gods or belief systems that continue to be subscribed to by other human beings on the planet.

As soon as you say "Jesus is the Way", you are saying that Buddha ISN'T the way.

As soon as you say that one should "pray to know if the Book of Mormon or the church is true", you are saying that Heavenly Father will prove to you that both are true, therefore all others are NOT true.

The very prayer that Joseph Smith was said to raise up to God when he wanted to know what church was true and what churches WERE NOT true, is a demonstration of wanting to disprove those churches that were not true.

The LDS Church that claims to have the truth, Nightlion, is automatically saying that the other belief systems are wrong and false, including mainstream Christianity, the Catholic Church, Buddhism, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy for if it did not, the missionary program of the LDS church would not exist.

If I nailed this, Dale will say so. If I have misinterpreted Dale, I hope he'll correct me.

[_Nightlion]

...I just make the lump assumption that anyone who equals belief in God to belief in the Easter Bunny,
Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause is atheits. Am I wrong?
...

Only "wrong" because you did not read what I said.

I asked whether or not we should correct people's mistaken beliefs in ANY gods?

For example -- there was a god named Dagon in ancient Israel.
If I meet somebody who worships Dagon today, am I allowed to
correct that person's mistaken beliefs?

UD

Okay, so you did not say that you do not believe in God. You did however come off like every stone atheist who does deny God.
I only started this thread to have fun so tangle me up all you like.

Am am no where near a 32nd degree messer wither.

[_Uncle Dale]

...You did however come off like every stone atheist who does deny God.
...

Of course I did.

And you stopped reading, because I did.
You may wish to re-think that sort of a knee-jerk posting method.

Now -- back to the god Dagon, of Judges 16:23, 1 Samuel 5:2-7, and 1 Chronicles 1:10, etc.



If I do not worship him, am I an atheist?

If I simply refuse to believe in him, am I an atheist?

If I do not accept the plurality of gods, and thus ignore Dagon totally, am I an atheist?

Uncle Dale

[_Jersey Girl]

You did however come off like every stone atheist who does deny God.
I only started this thread to have fun so tangle me up all you like.

As soon as you read "Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus", you immediately stereotyped him and stopped thinking.

He posed a thoughtful question to you, Nightlion.

[_Nightlion]

You did however come off like every stone atheist who does deny God.
I only started this thread to have fun so tangle me up all you like.

As soon as you read "Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus", you immediately stereotyped him and stopped thinking.

He posed a thoughtful question to you, Nightlion.

That stereotype was no stretch. I read what he said and it failed to engage me. Sorry.

So see there he has gone out on his own limb with it. May it bear him some fruit.

I think that equating the denial of any other gods of name with the denial of the Most High a blasphemy.
Might be intollerable of me amongst those who cow to every convention of men, but what the hey.

[_Nightlion]

...You did however come off like every stone atheist who does deny God.
...

Of course I did.

And you stopped reading, because I did.
You may wish to re-think that sort of a knee-jerk posting method.

Now -- back to the god Dagon, of Judges 16:23, 1 Samuel 5:2-7, and 1 Chronicles 1:10, etc.



If I do not worship him, am I an atheist?

If I simply refuse to believe in him, am I an atheist?

If I do not accept the plurality of gods, and thus ignore Dagon totally, am I an atheist?

Uncle Dale

Everyone is an atheist if the denial of just any one god makes you an atheist.
Atheist need to deny all divinty in my mind. Anything less would be absurd. To be a nonthinker you cannot ever think again or you remain a thinker I think.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
Atheist need to deny all divinty in my mind.
...

I'm not quite sure how you mean that.

I assume it is official LDS doctrine, and so the statement is not
dependent upon what is in your mind or not in your mind.

If I'm correct so far, then we can move on.

If I deny the existence of ALL the gods in the Bible, but still affirm
my own divinity, then I am not an atheist -- right?

If I deny the existence of ALL the gods ever mentioned by human beings,
but still affirm the divinity of the Universe, (or "The Force" or the Buddhist
"Clear Light of the Void") then I am not an atheist -- right?

So far so good?

Now -- for the last question.


If I deny ALL the divinity of all the entities ever considered by human beings,
but I still affirm Divinity itself -- still affirm the Divine aspect of existence --
am I a theist or an atheist?

Uncle Dale


ps -- By the way -- I do not affirm the precept that Joseph Smith, Jr. is currently
mingling with "gods" so he can plan for his brethren -- nor that Smith is, or ever
will be, anybody's worshiped God ------ (just for the record).