Excommunication spans the veil of death

[_RockSlider]

What amazes me is that the church will inflict such incredible pain on their faithful, unquestioning followers:

This story involves an 82 year old mother, who’s son was excommunicated over 30 years ago. He lived his life as a homeless street person, who died at 50 from a very hard life. The mother’s pain/guilt over this child and his death in the first place was stifling. The added pain/insult of the work not taking is just plan crazy.

Sometimes I really hate this damned church.

[_Yoda]

I'm not trying to be snarky or callous here. I'm just trying to answer the question....

What good does it do to do someones work after they have died if they already had the opportunity while in this life? Work for the dead is not a second chance.

Like Rockslider, Gaz, I'm disappointed in your answer.

There is only one Eternal Judge. Who are we to determine what this brother learned on the other side?

It is Christ's determination on how His atonement is to be applied, not ours. Considering the parable of the Prodigal's son, I think it is pretty clear where Christ's feelings lie.

[_Gazelam]

Am I missing something here?

Everyone has issue with my reply, like I had some original thought on this matter.

According to Rock, the work was being re-done for an excommunicated member who had no interest in his life of repairing the issue he was excomunicated for.

Is there some fresh new information he is going to learn on the other side of the veil? Will he get a better witness of the spirit there than he did here?

I certainly have no keen insight on this individuals life. I am only working with the basic details given in the OP. But it seems to me that someone who had been excommunicated is not going to get a second chance in the afterlife that would entail a need to have their temple work "re-done" post mortem.

[_RockSlider]

Am I missing something here?

oh, maybe I see ... did you assume my brother-in-law had taken out his own endowments in his life time?

If so, no ... lets try this again, picture a 20 year old young man in an explosive home situation (his parents/siblings) and he ends up married (not in the temple) but divorced and excommunicated in short order.

This young man of 20 years then hits the streets, drugs, alcohol laden and homeless for the next 30 years till his death. Yea I'm pretty sure you are right, he had his chance, off to hell with you, he surely knew what hell is all about.

His mother waits for one year after his death and then submits his work to the temple to be done in proxy. This had always been the policy, one year. But apparently this has changed, after the work had been done in proxy ... some time later here comes the letter, the proxy work was no good.

Your comments here remind me of myself several years ago, when my friend Hyrum Andrus told me "The only thing the elders of the church need to repent of is their own self righteousness" Little did I understand, at the time, he was talking about me.

Now, can you answer my questions, or would you prefer to continue showing your vast knowledge of the concepts of repentance, grace, atonement, charity, motherly love etc?

1. When did this one year wait policy change, and this new policy start?
2. Who decides, and what are the conditions that allow family members to find comfort and do the work?

[_Yoda]

Rockslider-

On page 88 of the latest version of the General Handbook of Instructions, it does state that if someone is excommunicated, their work after death must be pre-approved by the First Presidency.

I tried to copy/paste the exact quote,but since I have it downloaded via .PDF file, it wouldn't let me.

[_RockSlider]

I suppose the various temple software programs have just gotten smarter and are now cross checking membership/other records to pick up "problems". Maybe the rule has been in place for a long time, there was just no way to enforce it.

Years ago the church was infamous for paying their software engineers peanuts (and hence had a hard time recruiting good engineers). The old temple ready software was horrible. I’ve heard in recent years they have fixed this and are now competitive in the market.

[_Analytics]

Am I missing something here?

I certainly have no keen insight on this individuals life. I am only working with the basic details given in the OP. But it seems to me that someone who had been excommunicated is not going to get a second chance in the afterlife that would entail a need to have their temple work "re-done" post mortem.

What you are saying is certainly consistent with the D&C. But this policy does seem to be at odds with the church’s general philosophy of do the work for everybody and let God sort out the details on the other side. If that approach is good enough to justify doing the work of Hitler, why wouldn’t it be good enough to justify doing the work for apostate XYZ?

[_Inconceivable]

What amazes me is that Greg Dodge, is one of only two men on earth that can unbind an ordinance both on earth and heaven, but his official priesthood office cannot be located in the CHI.

No doubt though, the big button on his desk is blessed by the FP.

[_Yoda]

What amazes me is that Greg Dodge, is one of only two men on earth that can unbind an ordinance both on earth and heaven, but his official priesthood office cannot be located in the CHI.

No doubt though, the big button on his desk is blessed by the FP.

Inc....

I have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. Maybe I am just really naïve. Want to fill me in on who Greg Dodge is?

[_Analytics]

I have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. Maybe I am just really naïve. Want to fill me in on who Greg Dodge is?

Greg Dodge is the supervisor of the "name removal" department. If you resign from the church, he's the one who sends you the letter saying "you are no longer a member of the Church..." or, "you didn't jump through the right hoops, see your bishop."

He's quite the celebrity among the rfm crowd.