Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

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_Uncle Dale
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Re: Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

Post by _Uncle Dale »

TAK wrote:...
Jos. purchased the land first
...


Depends upon what you mean by "purchased."

After forcing out Oliver Cowdery and the Whitmers, from the Church in 1838,
for selling their "eternal inheritances in Zion," Smith himself traded what remained
of Mormon "inheritances" in Missouri, for options to buy tracts in Nauvoo and across
the river, in Iowa.

I doubt that he laid down a thin silver dime of his own money.

The call for "a gathering" necessarily involved concentrating an ever-increasing
number of settlers, upon a never-increasing hunk of land.

What happen when supply is static, but demand continues to increase?
I think that is Economics 101 -- day one -- page one -- paragraph one.


Like that fake Howard Hughes "Mormon Will?"

Like the "Dream Mine?"

Like the last luncheon for Amway in Orem?

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_TAK
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Re: Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

Post by _TAK »

Uncle Dale wrote:[
Depends upon what you mean by "purchased."

After forcing out Oliver Cowdery and the Whitmers, from the Church in 1838,
for selling their "eternal inheritances in Zion," Smith himself traded what remained
of Mormon "inheritances" in Missouri, for options to buy tracts in Nauvoo and across
the river, in Iowa.

I doubt that he laid down a thin silver dime of his own money.

The call for "a gathering" necessarily involved concentrating an ever-increasing
number of settlers, upon a never-increasing hunk of land.


So Smith owning options to the land then sold to the arriving Saints.. at higher prices..

Isn't the a instance where Smith cheated Pratt on a land deal that lead to Pratt leaving for a time ?
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


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_Uncle Dale
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Re: Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

Post by _Uncle Dale »

TAK wrote:...
Isn't the a instance where Smith cheated Pratt on a land deal that lead to Pratt leaving for a time ?


KIRTLAND, May 23, 1837.

PRES'T. J. SMITH JR. Dear Brother as it is difficult to obtain a personal interview with you at all times By reason of the multitude of Business in which you are engaged you will Excuse my saying in writing what I would otherwise say By word of mouth. Haveing Long Pondered the Path in which we as a people have been led in regard to our temporal management, I have at Length Become fully convinced that the whole scene of Speculation in which we have been Engaged is of the Devil; I allude to the covetous Extortionary Speculating Spirit which has reigned in this place for the Last season, which has given rise to Lying deceiving and takeing the advantage of ones Nabour and In Short to Every Eavle work:

And Being as fully convinced that you and President Rigdon; Both by presept and Example have Been the principle means In Leading this people astray in these particulars and haveing myself Been Led astray and Caught in the same snare By your Example and By false Prophesying and preaching from your mouths; yes haveing done many things Rong and plunged myself and family and others well nigh in to distruction, I have awoke to an awful sense of my situation and now resolve to retrace my steps, and to get out of the mare and make restitution, as far as I can. And now Dear Brother If you are still determined to pursue this wicked course untill yourself and the Church shall sink down to hell; I Beseach you at least to have mercy on me and my family and others who are Bound with me for those certain 3 lots which you sold to me at the Extortionary price of $2,000 which never cost you $1.00; for if It stands against me it will [ruin] Myself and a helpless family as well as those Bound with me for yesterday Pres't Rigdon came to me and Informed me that you had drawn the money from the Bank on the obligation you held against me and
that you had Left it to the mercy of the Bank and could not help what ever course they might take to collect it: notwithstanding the most sacred promise on your part that I should not be incured By giving these writings. I offered him the 3 lots for the writings but he wanted my house and home also; now deare Brother will take those lots and give me up the writings and pay me the seventy five dollars which I paid you on the same or will you take the advantage of your Nabour because he is in your Power if you will receive this admonition from one who Loves your Soul and repent of your Extortion and covetousness in this thing, and make restitution you have my fellowship and Esteem as far as it respects our dealings Between ourselves' But if not I Shall be under the painful necessity of prefering charges against you for Extortion, covetousness and takeing advantage of your Brother By an undue religious influence for it is this kind of influence which Led us to make such kind of trades, in this society, such as saying it was the will of God that Lands Should Bear such a price and many other Prophesyings Preachings and Statements of a like nature.
Yours with respect,
P. P. PRATT.

P. S. Do not suppose for a moment that I Lack any Confidence in the Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants Nay It is my firm belief in those Records that hinders my Belief In the course we have Been Led of Late.



Original (or at least a photocopy) in the Lake County historical Society Library, Painesville, Ohio.

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_TAK
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Re: Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

Post by _TAK »

Bound with me for those certain 3 lots which you sold to me at the Extortionary price of $2,000 which never cost you $1.00;


Nice buddy..
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


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_Tchild
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Re: Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

Post by _Tchild »

Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bullion
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By James Sterngold

Sept. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Henry Jones delivered the good news in a conference call with Tri Energy Inc.’s investors: The gold deal the company had been working on for years was about to pay off.

Jones, 55, a record producer in Marina del Rey, California, and his two partners had raised more than $50 million from 735 investors, which they said they were using to broker the sale to Arab buyers of 20,000 tons of gold owned by a group of Israelis. They promised to triple investors’ money -- if only Tri Energy could overcome some last-minute glitches.

All the company needed to close the deal, Jones said on the Dec. 20, 2004, conference call, taped by one of the participants, was a “safe-passage letter” that would cost $450,000. A few days later, on another call, he said Tri Energy had to come up with $100,000 to open a “commission account.” Then, on Jan. 15, 2005, a new request: The bank handling the deal wanted $125,000 to conduct an audit.

Like those caught up in other get-rich scams -- from Bernard Madoff’s $65 billion Ponzi scheme, which initially snared wealthy Jews, to an alleged $4.4 million fraud aimed at deaf people -- Tri Energy’s investors had something in common. Many were Mormons and born-again Christians who shared dreams and prayers on nightly conference calls. They vowed to use the profits for charitable works and kept raising funds, at times taking out second mortgages, draining retirement accounts and recruiting relatives.

Wow! Lets look how many things don't add up for any "investor" who has been smart enough to save four nickels.

1) gold bullion is sold with a slight premium from boker to buyer or slight discount from seller to broker. The larger the order the smaller the premium above spot, or the smaller the spread below gold spot bid.

2) Why on God's green earth would Arabs want or need to buy "Israeli gold"? Especially considering that gold bullion is bought and sold everywhere with no special consideration on price as to whether it Isreali, or bangladeshi or whatever, and more so to have some rubes from Utah be the go betweens? That part is so comical that I wonder how the promoters can even say it out loud without busting out in laughter?

3) A "safe passage letter"? Whatever that is, and why does it cost $450,000? Is the letter made of solid gold itself, weighing some 40 troy pounds? The "last minute glitches" smack of the Nigerian scams. The scam is cut out of the same cloth.

4)$100,000 cost for a commission account? Does that come with a month's worth of high priced hookers thrown in or something?

5) An audit for $125,000? An audit of gold bullion would take about one or two hours at most, and that is probably with the auditors breaking for coffee, doughnuts, two smoke breaks and some lunch. Our financial audit just cost us about $12k and the auditors have been here off and on for two months as we bend over and allow their financial probing into our rectal cavities for anything suspicious.

It is a classic scam on greed. You promise the high returns, get the "deal" right to the finish line, then throw in the last minute glitches. The marks, or rather, the investors are sooo close they can just taste the high returns and will agree to almost any additional cost to get the deal done and them their free money.

Dumb asses.

I wonder, in all that prayin' to Jesus, why didn't he reveal to them that the whole thing was a scam?
_The Nehor
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Re: Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

Post by _The Nehor »

Uncle Dale wrote:Now it's 2009, and we look in the Deseret News in vain, to read such
Divinely-inspired warnings to the Saints, from the Living Prophet.

Either God neglected to tell Pres. Monson about this latest scam, or the LDS leaders have
once again mis-placed Joseph Smith's seer-stone, and aren't getting needed revelation.


Actually I've heard warning about such things coming from over the pulpit many times. I've also heard letters from the First Presidency read warning of scams.

I think LDS (and committed religious people of all stripes) are more vulnerable due to their strong social ties. If Joe Random offers me a deal I worry about a scam. If Joe from Church does I'm less wary. Also, many of the sellers are sincere in thinking it will work. I've had people in the LDS Church try to get me involved in these things about five times in the last few years, one from a friend. I felt bad but told her exactly why it wouldn't work.

Greed and an atmosphere of trust breed this kind of thing. When I want spirtual help I seek out the spiritual. If I want financial advice, I don't care how spiritual you are; I want a financial expert.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Gadianton Plumber

Re: Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

Post by _Gadianton Plumber »

The Nehor wrote:
Uncle Dale wrote:Now it's 2009, and we look in the Deseret News in vain, to read such
Divinely-inspired warnings to the Saints, from the Living Prophet.

Either God neglected to tell Pres. Monson about this latest scam, or the LDS leaders have
once again mis-placed Joseph Smith's seer-stone, and aren't getting needed revelation.


Actually I've heard warning about such things coming from over the pulpit many times. I've also heard letters from the First Presidency read warning of scams.

I think LDS (and committed religious people of all stripes) are more vulnerable due to their strong social ties. If Joe Random offers me a deal I worry about a scam. If Joe from Church does I'm less wary. Also, many of the sellers are sincere in thinking it will work. I've had people in the LDS Church try to get me involved in these things about five times in the last few years, one from a friend. I felt bad but told her exactly why it wouldn't work.

Greed and an atmosphere of trust breed this kind of thing. When I want spirtual help I seek out the spiritual. If I want financial advice, I don't care how spiritual you are; I want a financial expert.

There is only one true scam, eh?
_The Nehor
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Re: Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

Post by _The Nehor »

Gadianton Plumber wrote:There is only one true scam, eh?


Yep, a particular individual instituted it before the world was to cheat the children of God of eternal lives.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

Post by _Uncle Dale »

Gadianton Plumber wrote:...
There is only one true scam, eh?


When Martin Harris died, the Cincinnati Commercial drew upon some
contemporary Ohio recollections, in order to write his obituary. Among the
details there published was this:

THE CINCINNATI COMMERCIAL
Monday Aug. 30, 1875
Vol. XXXV No. 851

Death of One of the Authors of the Mormon Bible.

...

Smith not only plied Harris with "revelations," but explained the certainty of making a speck out of the
publication of the manuscripts. An edition of five thousand would cost, say, $3,000. Joseph had a revelation
that the books would sell for $1.25 each, and he went on to assure his victim that there was a chance to
clear $3,250.
...


The chance to "clear $3,250" was about as good as a snowball's chance in hell.
Smith drained Harris of his money and cast him away, like an empty, worn-out pocketbook.

But Nehor makes a good point -- even the leaders in the Reorganized LDS Church now and then
warn the members not to be taken in by financial schemes.

The branch of CoC I previously belonged to, solicited something like $20,000 from us gullible Saints
and the leaders promptly lost most of the cash in bad investments. When we asked what had happened,
we were hit up for additional donations -- to make up the loss, so that the leaders wouldn't look so bad.

Monson (or the CoC First Presidency) can talk in generalities all they want -- but what I'm looking for is
a "Thus saith the Lord... do not invest your money in the $50 million gold scam;" just like Joseph Smith,
in the Kirtland newspaper, specifically warned the LDS members not to trust his own bank. He did not
warn them against bank in general --- he flat out said, don't trust Kirtland Bank notes.

Modern Latter Day Saint leaders appear to have lost that sort of straightforward, commanding voice.

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_TAK
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Re: Mormons Become Victims in $50 Million Scam to Sell Gold Bull

Post by _TAK »

The Nehor wrote:Yep, a particular individual instituted it before the world was to cheat the children of God of eternal lives.


Absolutely!!! And to protect yourself from the devil you make sure Jesus gets your tithing promptly each month! LMAO !
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


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