General Conference

[_Dr. Shades]

Will we hear a revelation giving women the priesthood?

Will we hear that the books are open and the first annual report will be on the church's website by Monday?

Will we hear that the Book of Mormon is not history?

Will we finally hear the lost revelation that restored the higher priesthood?

Will we offer full fellowship and privileges to all, no matter what their sexual orientation?

Will we hear that the TRI is being changed so that kindness and charity will be considered more important than tithing and the Word of Wisdom?

C'mon, harmony. You know the answer to each of these questions just as well as I do.

[_Gazelam]

Harmony,
Will we hear a revelation giving women the priesthood? :
Women who are sealed to their husbands in the Temple already have the priesthood.

Will we hear that the books are open and the first annual report will be on the church's website by Monday?
No

Will we hear that the Book of Mormon is not history?
Why would you want to be lied to?

Will we finally hear the lost revelation that restored the higher priesthood?
D&C 27:12

Will we offer full fellowship and privileges to all, no matter what their sexual orientation?
You do not understand the Plan of Salvation or the Law of Chastity.

Will we hear that the TRI is being changed so that kindness and charity will be considered more important than tithing and the Word of Wisdom?
You mean like these questions?
8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

[_Gazelam]

Nehor,

I got an advance copy of President Monson's talk:

[_Paul Osborne]

Women who are sealed to their husbands in the Temple already have the priesthood.

Women who have been endowed have been ordained to hold the priesthood. The sealing doesn't ordain women. A woman does NOT need to be sealed to hold the priesthood. Neither does a man.

Paul O

[_Gazelam]

Women who have been endowed have been ordained to hold the priesthood. The sealing doesn't ordain women. A woman does NOT need to be sealed to hold the priesthood. Neither does a man.

Paul O

Thanks Paul, I knew I was phrasing it wrong.

Men and women have different but equally important responsibilities in the home and the [Mormon] Church. Men have no greater claim than women upon the blessings that come from the priesthood. ‘The man holds the priesthood, performs the priestly duties of the Church, but his wife enjoys with him every other privilege derived from the possession of the priesthood. This is made clear, as an example, in the Temple service of the Church. The ordinances of the Mormon Temple are distinctly of priesthood character, yet women have access to all of them, and the highest blessings of the Temple are conferred only upon a man and his wife jointly.’ Also, in the temple, women have power conferred on them to perform certain ordinances for other women.

Brigham Young's 1843 diary associated the endowment of women with receiving priesthood. On 29 October 1843, for example, he noted that Thirza Cahoon, Lois Cutler, and Phebe Woodworth were “taken into the order of the priesthood.” That was the day those three women individually received their endowment. They did not join with their husbands to receive the second anointing until 12 and 15 November 1843, respectively. When his own wife received the endowment on 1 November 1843, Brigham Young wrote: “Mary A. Young admitted in to the hiest [highest] orderer [order of] Preasthood [sic].” She did not receive the second anointing with him until three weeks later.29

[_MsJack]

Women who are sealed to their husbands in the Temple already have the priesthood.

Women who have been endowed have been ordained to hold the priesthood. The sealing doesn't ordain women. A woman does NOT need to be sealed to hold the priesthood. Neither does a man.

Personally I think you're both wrong. Over time church leaders have repeatedly refuted the notion that women hold the priesthood in any sense, either through their endowments or through their husbands.

A wife does not hold the priesthood in connection with her husband, but she enjoys the benefits thereof with him; and if she is requested to lay hand on the sick with him . . . she may do so with perfect propriety. It is no uncommon thing for a man and wife unitedly to administer to their children, and the husband being mouth, he may properly say out of courtesy, “By authority of the holy priesthood in us vested.”

The Priesthood is not received, or held, or exercised in any degree, by the women of the Church; but nevertheless, the women of the Church enjoy the blessings of the Priesthood through their husbands.

There seems to be a revival of the idea among some of our sisters that they hold the priesthood . . . When a woman is sealed to a man holding the Priesthood, she becomes one with him . . . She receives blessings in association with him . . . Sisters have said to me sometimes, “But, I hold the Priesthood with my husband.” “Well,” I asked, “what office do you hold in the Priesthood?” Then they could not say much more. The sisters are not ordained to any office in the Priesthood and there is authority in the Church which they cannot exercise; it does not belong to them; they cannot do that properly any more than they can change themselves into a man.

Women do not hold the Priesthood. This fact must be faced calmly by mothers and explained clearly to young women, for the spirit that is now abroad in the world makes for women’s demand for every place and office enjoyed by men, and a few more than men can’t enter. Women in this Church must not forget that they have rights which men do not possess. They have their own field, their own duties, their own privileges. It is cowardly to dodge this question in dealing with young women. But let the whole facts be stated. Then women will see how richly they are endowed and how righteously their place in this life and the life to come has been provided for.

In weekly worship services and classes, women preach sermons, offer prayers in behalf of the congregation, and teach adults and children. They may also serve as missionaries and as presidents of the Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary organizations. Women participate in councils that oversee congregational activities throughout the world. They also perform a vital work in nurturing and teaching in the home. ... The priesthood—the authority of God to perform ordinances and act in His name—is conferred only on worthy male members of the Church. Men who hold the priesthood have no advantage over women in qualifying for salvation or eternal life through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Quotes found here, here and here.

There's also the fact that if women really hold the priesthood (either through sealings or endowments), then why can't endowed women perform ordinances outside of the temple such as blessing and passing the sacrament, anointing the sick, baptizing people, standing as witnesses for baptisms, conferring the gift of the Holy Ghost, etc.? Sorry, but I'm not going to give the church much "woman priesthood" credit for letting women perform a single ordinance in the temple which would clearly be indelicate to have men perform on women.

So I reject the interpretation that LDS women hold any kind of priesthood, either through their husbands or their endowments. Some of the church's earliest leaders may have intended that, but the church has clearly moved away from the idea.

[_Paul Osborne]

Bridget,

A woman who is endowed is given the promise that she will become a priestess. That is in connection with the endowment. To be a priestess is to hold the priesthood. Although that actual priesthood is not held and practiced in mortality it will be later.

I guess you could say it is foreordination.

Paul O

[_harmony]

Bridget,

A woman who is endowed is given the promise that she will become a priestess. That is in connection with the endowment. To be a priestess is to hold the priesthood. Although that actual priesthood is not held and practiced in mortality it will be later.

I guess you could say it is foreordination.

Paul O

You realize that's a pile of horse pucky, right, Paul? That's patronization and marginalization at its most evident, and it's insulting.

[_Yoda]

Some of the church's earliest leaders may have intended that, but the church has clearly moved away from the idea.

I think this is a case of culture winning out over intended Church organization.

In the early days of the Church, women did administer to the sick. Christ had women performing authoritative administrative duties within his Church all the time. His apostles were constantly whining about it.

Bridget,

A woman who is endowed is given the promise that she will become a priestess. That is in connection with the endowment. To be a priestess is to hold the priesthood. Although that actual priesthood is not held and practiced in mortality it will be later.

I guess you could say it is foreordination.

Paul O

You realize that's a pile of horse pucky, right, Paul? That's patronization and marginalization at its most evident, and it's insulting.

I actually don't think that Paul meant this in a patronizing way. I think that culture has influenced the leaders of the Church when it really shouldn't have. Blacks and the priesthood is another example of this. It's easier for the Church to continue to discriminate against women and the priesthood because the majority of churches today exist in a patriarchal order.

I think that what Paul was trying to state with his comment was that, in layman's terms, there are a lot of things that the Church is screwing up with right now. In the next life, that won't be the case. Women will hold the priesthood, as they should.

Only time will tell if this can be rectified in the Church on the earth.

[_zytines]

Bridget,

A woman who is endowed is given the promise that she will become a priestess. That is in connection with the endowment. To be a priestess is to hold the priesthood. Although that actual priesthood is not held and practiced in mortality it will be later.

I guess you could say it is foreordination.

Paul O

That's actually in connection with the initiatory, and it's not a promise, it's a conditional statement. Also, once those conditions are met, the woman can attain that status in mortality, not just later.

Personally I think you're both wrong.

Jack - I agree with you about women not holding the priesthood through initiatories, endowments, or sealings, but what do you make of the second annointing? I think it's hard to say women don't hold some priesthood at that point, even though it may not be in an office in the mortal hierarchy of the church.