How The Church Can Stop Hemorrhaging Members

[_harmony]

We could start with an honest and open (and detailed) annual financial report.

Can you imagine the heyday the critics would have with that? Even if it were clean as a whistle, critics far and wide would relentlessly vulture upon it.

If it was open and honest, there would be nothing on which to vulture (odd choice of phrase, but whatever...)

[_just me]

Why does God care what the critics think?

[_The Nehor]

The Church doesn't need to "focus all our teaching efforts on teaching every obscure detail of Church history", but the Church would be well served to openly and honestly focus a little bit more on the BIG issues that seem to really have an impact and influence on a member's decision to leave the Church.

By that you mean the BIG issues stemming from obscure details of Church history. I know the drill.

Nehor, there is absolutely nothing to feel defensive about.

Not defensive. Just not buying this crazy line that adding all this stuff into the church curriculum will retain more people.

I think we can both agree that honesty and openness are good things.

Yes.

Especially when it comes to the Church.

And of course by honesty you mean "teach what the Church's enemies think they should teach". That's not honesty and openness no matter how pretty of a bow you try to put on it.

[_jon]

Honesty in Mormonism, hmmm...

Are Lamanites 'literal', 'principle' or 'among the' ancestors of the Native Americans?
Is Polygamy doctrinal?
Is a black skin a curse?
Did Joseph Smith see 'Father Adam and Abraham and my father and my mother' (D&C 137) or was it 'Father Adam and Abraham and Michael and my father and my mother' (Joseph Smith journal from whence D&C 137 is copied..., well, almost copied)?
If the Book of Mormon contains the 'fulness of the Gospel' why doesn't today's Mormonism bear any resemblance to it?
Does Mormonism teach that God was once a man?
Where does all the money go...?
Is Catholicism an abomination and the whore of the Earth or is it another good religion with much truth?

The Church cannot afford to be honest about itself and I'm not sure, as an organization, that it knows just exactly what the truth is!

[_The Nehor]

Honesty in Mormonism, hmmm...

Are Lamanites 'literal', 'principle' or 'among the' ancestors of the Native Americans?

All except the 'principle' one. If you meant 'principal' then all of the above.

Is Polygamy doctrinal?

In the sense that it is being taught now, no. In the sense that it is an eternal principle endorsed by God when He commands it, yes. Doctrine means teaching. It is not taught as something we do so we do not now.

Is a black skin a curse?

No. In scripture it is the mark used for a curse. It is not intrinsically a curse. Whatever curses there were in the times of Adam, Noah, Abraham, and the early days of the Church (if there was one), they have all been lifted.

Did Joseph Smith see 'Father Adam and Abraham and my father and my mother' (D&C 137) or was it 'Father Adam and Abraham and Michael and my father and my mother' (Joseph Smith journal from whence D&C 137 is copied..., well, almost copied)?

Both.

If the Book of Mormon contains the 'fulness of the Gospel' why doesn't today's Mormonism bear any resemblance to it?

The Book of Mormon contains little about organization, ordinances, and practices of Nephite and Lamanite Churches. That is why we have the Doctrine & Covenants. I could also claim that Muslim places of worship don't bear any resemblance to the Quran or that Catholic churches don't look like the New Testament but it would be a meaningless statement.

Does Mormonism teach that God was once a man?

Mormonism teaches that God is a man period. Read his name in our scripture.

Where does all the money go...?

In a vault. As soon as we have more bullion then is in Fort Knox we will declare victory and rise up in our plans for world domination.

Is Catholicism an abomination and the whore of the Earth or is it another good religion with much truth?

The latter though their creeds are an abomination.

The Church cannot afford to be honest about itself and I'm not sure, as an organization, that it knows just exactly what the truth is!

What part of my answer wasn't clear?

[_Sethbag]

I agree with Themis on this one. For all the hemorrhaging the church may be suffering, whatever level that is, it would be worse if the church were more honest about its history.

The church is in between a rock and a hard place, really. If they lie about things, as they have been, they only lose the ones who find out. If they tell the truth, they lose even more. All they can really hope is that the rate at which people find out the truth drops. And with the Internet, fat chance of that.

The LDS church isn't really true, and its history reflects that. The whitewashed history we were all taught by the church describes a fantasy of a true church that has never really existed. If the church were to be more open and honest in its depictions of its early days, it would just make it easier for more people to recognize the manmade nature of the church, instead of the fantasy "true church" version they've been conditioned to see.

[_The Nehor]

I agree with Themis on this one. For all the hemorrhaging the church may be suffering, whatever level that is, it would be worse if the church were more honest about its history.

The church is in between a rock and a hard place, really. If they lie about things, as they have been, they only lose the ones who find out. If they tell the truth, they lose even more. All they can really hope is that the rate at which people find out the truth drops. And with the Internet, fat chance of that.

The LDS church isn't really true, and its history reflects that. The whitewashed history we were all taught by the church describes a fantasy of a true church that has never really existed. If the church were to be more open and honest in its depictions of its early days, it would just make it easier for more people to recognize the manmade nature of the church, instead of the fantasy "true church" version they've been conditioned to see.

And no doubt many here will swallow this tripe.

[_jon]

And no doubt many here will swallow this tripe.

Speaking of tripe swallowing...

5And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.

6And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.

7Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.

8And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;

[_The Nehor]

And no doubt many here will swallow this tripe.

Speaking of tripe swallowing...

5And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.

6And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.

7Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.

8And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;

Over your head then?

[_jon]

Nehor,

Sadly you missed that the tripe in question was the source of the words.
Thought you'd have got that, I'll be less cryptic in future.