If the church is not true, would you want to know?

[_Obiwan]

Listen to the beginning of this report where a CNN report talks with one of the Xtians who believed the world would end on the 21st of May:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestof ... aldwin.cnn

Mormons are just like that guy being interviewed.

Ask a Mormon, "If the church is not true, would you want to know?" and chances are they will not give you a straight yes or no.

This guys is NOTHING like Mormons.....

Just another example of anti-mormon bearing false witness, perverting truth and using it to tell great lies. Liberals do the same, sad. :(

And you are wrong again..... We absolutely WOULD want to know if the Church isn't true.
After all, we join the religion BECAUSE OF the Truth of it, over all other "truths".

You shouldn't confuse your ignorance and perversion of Mormonism and Mormons as being "actual truth" of it and us.

[_Obiwan]

Yes, I"d love to know.

Then read this:
http://mormonthink.com/

Regarding the OP, I've read many posts by Mormons who state outright that there isn't any evidence that can sway them from their testimony. Enuma has stated that he would believe a translation of the Kinderhook plates done by Joseph Smith knowing they were a hoax. That pretty much sums up the commitment to belief... it's true even if it's known to be untrue.

Bullpucky!

Did you ever consider that the "translation" (which is actually simply revelation), that he recieved was in reference to OTHER THINGS going on, such as the Book of Abraham, Book of Moses, etc.? Did you ever notice that what Joseph supposed "translated" of the Kinderhook plates bears remarkable resemblance to OTHER scripture recieved? Thus, did you ever think that either Joseph Scribe or Joseph himself simply made a temporary human mistake in what the Revelation actually applied to, hence why there is NOT A SINGLE mention or instance of anything about the Kinderhook plates immediately and forever after the supposed translation? And remember, the Kinderhood plates weren't known to be frauds for sometime still....

Kinderhook does nothing to the Church.....

Further, your "true, even though untrue" statement is complete malarky when it comes to Mormons. We DO NOT think that way. However, people like you do, no matter how much information we show you showing that you pervert and omit important facts like your moronic "Mormonthink" website, you STILL continue to believe your false ideology.

Mormons are Mormon because each of us are "mini" Joseph Smiths.... We are people who see clearly all the doctrines of men mingled with the doctrines of God, all the man-made religions of the world, how said religious don't really practice and believe what the Bible in full states, etc. etc. Thus we are seekers of the absolute truth.... and we become Mormon because we have finally found it.

[_Morley]

Mormons are Mormon because each of us are "mini" Joseph Smiths....

I'm curious as to how many TBMs would subscribe to this part of Obiwan's statement. It's an interesting concept.

[_Obiwan]

Yes, I"d love to know.

In what ways can the truthfulness of the church be tested? Assuming the church's truth claims are falsifiable, how would we test it?

Easy.... The same way anything else is "tested", by experience, knowledge, the sciences, and a little revelation/inspiration thrown in.

Truth is known by STUDY and by FAITH..... not by faith alone.
Most of you claim to have been Mormon, yet for some reason nearly all of you completely seem to never have really known Mormonism. If you have, a basic principle of Mormonism is that all truth is come by the spirit AND the intellect.

Faith is the EVIDENCE of things not seen, but which are true.
Every faith is based on evidences..... The actual question then becomes, how much evidence, how good of evidences, whether evidences are true or false, etc.

Most of the problems you all complain about Mormonism and other religions are things that in fact do fit with other religions, but don't fit with Mormonism. Only in your ignorance of Mormonism do you make us like everybody else, stupid, basing our faith on "feelings" only, and whatever other moronic false characterization you all make of us. Me for example, I know what I'm saying is accurate, because I'm both a convert to the Church and someone who left it, critical of it and even all religion. But, I kept learning by putting away my judgments of the things of righteousness. Sadly most of you never will, and thus will never grow to see that there is in fact much more to Mormonism, that it IS literally what it claims to be, something no other religion can claim or qualify for.

[Guest]

Mormons gain their belief via a subjective experience.

Exmormons lose their belief via objective facts.

Bull pucky...!

See my posts above.... Further, Mormons gain their beliefs through experience, learning, and the spirit, NOT subjective feelings alone.

Ex-mormons, do in fact lose their belief via "facts", but facts are not the "Truth".
Ex-mormons gain a little more fact and truth, usually perverted fact and truth, and then falsely assume that "that is the end" to the facts and truth. I know this, because I went through it myself. I left the Church myself primarily due to the Priesthood issue (blacks & women) and Polygamy. But, I had only gained a little information on those subjects, negative information, and rather than patiently enduring and studying the information further, to get at the real truth, I pre-judged the Church in my youthful modern social-convention judgments. After all, how could a "true church" ever do those things???

Fortunately, I realized that I was starting to follow the darkside by unrighteously judging religion, the fruits of really the righteous of the earth. Despite how "righteous" atheists think they are, the good religious of the earth surpases them in spades in actual righteousness, not only in works but in spirit also. So, I put away my judgments, and when I was ready, I studied again, but deeper and trusting the actual truth would reveal itself due to my faith, and they did.

Anyway, both Mormons and ex-mormons make their beliefs and decisions based on "facts".... It is bearing false witness as well as immoral to say what you just said. Where the actual question resides, is HOW MUCH FACT, how good, how accurate, and more importantly, how complete. What I have learned unequivically from being on all sides of the issue, is that anti-mormons ex or non base their judgments on incomplete and inaccurate facts, generally negatively judgmental emotion based also. Every single issue an anti-mormon claims about the Church, I have looked at, the full history, the full contexts, the contexts of Mormonism itself, etc., and I see clearly and unequivically how the anti-mormon does what I just said, that is omit important facts, and pervert facts so as to make something look "bad" or negative, when the opposite is the actual case when the full facts are fairly seen and weighed.

Thus, repent and stop bearing false witness.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Listen to the beginning of this report where a CNN report talks with one of the Xtians who believed the world would end on the 21st of May:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestof ... aldwin.cnn

Mormons are just like that guy being interviewed.

Ask a Mormon, "If the church is not true, would you want to know?" and chances are they will not give you a straight yes or no.

This guys is NOTHING like Mormons.....

Just another example of anti-mormon bearing false witness, perverting truth and using it to tell great lies. Liberals do the same, sad. :(

And you are wrong again..... We absolutely WOULD want to know if the Church isn't true.
After all, we join the religion BECAUSE OF the Truth of it, over all other "truths".

You shouldn't confuse your ignorance and perversion of Mormonism and Mormons as being "actual truth" of it and us.

OIC.

May I inquire about your membership Brother Obiwan?

You "joined"? When? At what age?

Would you please point out this "truth" and how it is proven?

Thanks,

Brother P. Porter

[_Obiwan]

Mormons are Mormon because each of us are "mini" Joseph Smiths....

I'm curious as to how many TBMs would subscribe to this part of Obiwan's statement. It's an interesting concept.

I would say every single one, including those born into it. At some point a person must develop their own faith, no longer leaning upon the faith of others. This is actually why most who leave the Church leave it in their late teens or 20's. Many aren't able to transition or have trouble transitioning to the higher level of intellect and spirituality that is required in being a faithful Mormon. It's why some even downgrade to lower levels of Christianity or other religions, they intellectually and spiritually were not able to transition, and/or when confronted by other ideas they found them convincing, either negative against the Church and/or just a different theology, they were swayed, not being patient to understand Mormonism itself, instead believing in a simplistic and even false Mormonism, as they easily then start making judgments against it, as if their new religion ideology's are superior. But, they don't realize that they are only superior because of their "mischaracterization" and perversion of LDS theology, history, etc. This is how for example Christian anti-mormons are. They pervert for example our views on Grace and Salvation in order to then attack it, as if it's non-Biblical, etc. They create strawmen, and then tear them down.

Non-religious anti-mormons create other kinds of strawmen, some of which Christian anti's use (and vica/versa), even hypocritically use (i.e. things that would destroy their own faith if they applied the same standards to their beliefs).

Anyway, each of us are mini Joseph's.... We all were looking, seeking, with fervant desire for the truth, rather than the truths of the world.

If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

[_why me]

A few years ago, I wished Uncle Dale good luck in his research about the Spaulding manucript, saying that if he can prove the Mormon church false, it would be a good thing because no one should believe a fraud.

So far he hasn't done it. But then again, no one has proven the LDS church false. I think that most Mormons regardless of how devastating it would be would want to know if the church was false.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

A few years ago, I wished Uncle Dale good luck in his research about the Spaulding manucript, saying that if he can prove the Mormon church false, it would be a good thing because no one should believe a fraud.

So far he hasn't done it. But then again, no one has proven the LDS church false. I think that most Mormons regardless of how devastating it would be would want to know if the church was false.

REally.

And guess what? Nobody has proven the Mormon church to be "true" either.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Anyway, each of us are mini Joseph's.... We all were looking, seeking, with fervant desire for the truth, rather than the truths of the world.

Take my advice and keep your mini Josephs away from my daughters.