Of course I hate the LDS church. Is that a problem?

[Guest]

I don't hate everyone in the Mormon church. As I like to say, hate the Mormonism, not the Mormon. With that said, I can recognize that the Church does some good things; that doesn't mean I don't hate it. In Germany they have a way of pointing out the absurdity of "well, they do some good" argument against religions-people will note that Hitler built the autobahn, which most Germans love.

Isn't referencing Hitler passe yet? My goodness what comparison is there to make between the church and Hitler other than to be sensationalistic? Oh well. I hear your point overall, but you make it sound like you use hate differently than I, I suppose.

[_Joseph]

simone writes: "Millions of people are happy in their devotion to the church, and you and other anti-Mormons do not hold special insights that faithful members are too stupid or duped to grasp."
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Yes, we do. Your problem is encompassed in your sentence above quite well.

[_Runtu]

I went through a period during which I hated the church. As Pahoran can tell you, at one point I closed every post on RfM with "stupid damned cult." (Not that I had strong feelings or anything.) At the time, my exmo sister told me, "You're still in the angry stage. You'll get over it."

But the anger passed, and life went on. My sister had told me that once the immediacy of the feelings passed, I would be more able to see the good as well as the bad in the church. She was right.

It seems to me that anger is a predictable response to feeling like you've been lied to, and indeed I'd wonder at people who wouldn't be angry in such a situation. It's a good thing to get those feelings out, but it's not a good idea to let them fester.

I reread some of the things I wrote back then, and I remember the rawness of the emotions I was experiencing. I'm not in the same place emotionally, and that's a good thing. I got it out, and I moved on. I worry about my fellow apostates who can't seem to get past the sharp pain and anger.

In the same way, I sometimes wonder why some of the angriest people I know are Mormon apologists. What is it that drives them to such relentless hatred of critics? I don't get it.

Stupid damned cult. (Just kidding.)

[_CaliforniaKid]

And why is hatred bad? Because it deeply hinders one's ability to understand.

This is well said, too.

Sun Tzu taught that you must know your enemy to defeat him. Ender's Game expands upon this theme: "In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him. I think it’s impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves."

I think that even if one is truly convinced that the LDS Church is an immoral institution that needs to be defeated, one will still be better served by love than hatred.

[_Runtu]

This is well said, too.

Sun Tzu taught that you must know your enemy to defeat him. Ender's Game expands upon this theme: "In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him. I think it’s impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves."

I think that even if one is truly convinced that the LDS Church is an immoral institution that needs to be defeated, one will still be better served by love than hatred.

As I recall, Abraham Lincoln said that the best way to destroy your enemies is to make them your friends.

[_Pahoran]

What is the problem with hatred? I hate liars who try to control the lives of others. I hate racism. I hate sexism. Ergo, I hate the LDS church and its doctrine. Is that supposed to be bad?

Malaise,

Your self-serving justification -- and gratuitous slam against the Church you hate -- merely illustrates a universal truth: There has never been a hater anywhere who did not think his hatred was justified by the shortcomings of those he hated.

And if you don't believe me, just take a look at what Hitler said about the Jews.

If for no other reason than that it might give you some more ideas you can use in your attacks against the Church of Jesus Christ.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Chap]

In the same way, I sometimes wonder why some of the angriest people I know are Mormon apologists. What is it that drives them to such relentless hatred of critics? I don't get it.

One of the things that makes this board interesting is that it offers the chance to interact with some really seriously angry people in a safe environment. For instance, I have never met anybody so continuously, articulately, enraged as Pahoran anywhere else in my life. It's a fascinating experience, and it is hard to resist the temptation to make people like that a little angrier still, just to see if something spectacular will occur.

But where does the energy come from for all that? Maybe my experience is limited, and we must remember that Moksha and stemelbow are also representative LDS types, but yes, it does seem that some LDS do get especially angry with critics. Why?

I think the reason may lie in the distinctive stress of LDS theology on the personal witness of the spirit to the individual. If I refuse to see things the way the LDS apologist wants me to, it may be because I am too stupid to understand his arguments, or too insincere to attend to them seriously. But worse, perhaps, is that I am denying the Spirit, who, if only I would stop stifling his voice, is witnessing to me of the truth of what is being urged by the apologist. My continued disbelief is blasphemous disrespect to that Spirit, something far worse than mere failure to admit the strength of an argument. Deep inside me, a voice speaks of the truth, thinks the apologist, and I must know that he is right. But mendaciously I pretend otherwise.

Can't blame him for getting riled, then, if he thinks that way. Do I have this right, I wonder?

[_Simon Belmont]

One of the main problems I have with some critics, and the reason I am so angry with some of them, is the blatant falsehoods and misrepresentations they tout as truth. Joseph's "the Church hates Linux" and "the Church secretly owns the NBA" are just so stupid that someone might actually believe them (Joseph, no doubt, does).

Another problem I have is people like Infymus, who dedicate inordinate amounts of time and energy to creating a website and database with thousands of articles mocking and deriding a church that is sacred to millions (I would have the same protests of anti-Catholic websites). Why would someone do that? Why?

[_malaise]

Another problem I have is people like Infymus, who dedicate inordinate amounts of time and energy to creating a website and database with thousands of articles mocking and deriding a church that is sacred to millions (I would have the same protests of anti-Catholic websites). Why would someone do that? Why?

Why should people care about how sacred your church is to you? I certainly don't.

[_malaise]

Your self-serving justification -- and gratuitous slam against the Church you hate -- merely illustrates a universal truth: There has never been a hater anywhere who did not think his hatred was justified by the shortcomings of those he hated.

Profound

And if you don't believe me, just take a look at what Hitler said about the Jews.

If for no other reason than that it might give you some more ideas you can use in your attacks against the Church of Jesus Christ.

Regards,
Pahoran

Except I don't want to genocide Mormons. I want to save them from the LDS church.