Bill Hamblin and his "Focussed Discussion"

[_Kishkumen]

Moderator is now pointing out that I broke the cross-posting rule.

Oops! Forgot that one.

You mean the "don't make us look bad" rule?

[_Aristotle Smith]

And why are they feeding all urls through a proxy/anonymizer?

I understand that the MDD moderators probably enjoy their porn, but those of us with kids at home have blockers in place to keep them safer, and as a (good) rule they block anonymizers.

[Hawkeye]

Moderator is now pointing out that I broke the cross-posting rule.

Oops! Forgot that one.

You mean the "don't make us look bad" rule?

That must be it.

Hmph. Moderators just deleted most of my posts and locked the thread.

Now I am especially glad I posted the exchange here.

My last deleted post on this thread:

Well... it seems obvious to me that Hamblin really just doesn't want to debate me, and instead hides behind the unsupported accusation that my remarks are off topic. Rather than clearly defining the topic, he instead resorts to deleting my posts. Now the moderators are backing him. No surprise there.

Fine... I will leave the thread.

Bye! {smiley hat-tip}

[_Kishkumen]

That must be it.

Hmph. Moderators just deleted most of my posts and locked the thread.

Now I am especially glad I posted the exchange here.

Well, that's what "Mormon Dialogue" is all about, eh?

At least, one would think that, based on their behavior.

[_harmony]

And why do you avoid tracing the migration path of these esoteric elements and explaining how they got to Joseph Smith?

I'd like to see the answer to this question, if anyone wants to take a stab at it. Not the why, of course, but the tracing the migration path thing.

[_Joey]

I think he's now soliciting an email from the secretary to the First Presidency - Watson, to rescue him! What a panty waste!!!! No doubt Peterson will confirm the email!!!

[_MrStakhanovite]

I think he's now soliciting an email from the secretary to the First Presidency - Watson, to rescue him! What a panty waste!!!! No doubt Peterson will confirm the email!!!

Wasn't really necessary.

[_lostindc]

Hey Bill,

Come on in and answer the question. Or simply say "I don't know." By stating "I don't know" you might gain some respect. In my line of work you either know or you don't. When one does not know then they state this clearly and might even reply with: "let me get back to you," instead of taking one's ball, calling the police, locking yourself and the ball in a panic room, and yelling insults at people outside the panic room instead of facing the actual issue.

The MAD board has turned into revenge of the nerds when they finally gained control of the campus.

[_Mike Reed]

The thread is open again, and all but one of my posts are deleted.

[_George Miller]

The thread is open again, and all but one of my posts are deleted.

Hey Mike- Your questions were completely acceptable for the venue. I think your CFR was justified, and I find it interesting that Hamblin refused to really provide you a quote. This doesn't surprise me as I believe he is likely setting up a strawman: "A common belief espoused by many critics is that there were no biblical endowment-like secret traditions or rituals." I know I would never make such a claim. Throughout the old world there are dozens of mystery traditions that bear passing resemblance endowment. Of course these parallels were discussed in depth in Masonic literature from 1790-1870. In fact WE know that Joseph Smith had access to several of these texts.

Hamblin's tact here is interesting though and a bit novel when he invokes the סוד (sod) of יהוה as his example of a biblical endowment. From what he has posted so far, I am completely unconvinced that he has made his case. It seems to me that he is stretching the meaning of this phrase far beyond what it really means to push this into a celestial ascent motif. Of course you and I both know where Joseph got his celestial ascent motif (Freemasonry) and that Freemasonry has its own סוד of יהוה in the form of the Master's word. The ideas were READILY available in Joseph Smith's environment. Unless Hamblin wants to claim his secret of Jehovah looks MORE like the endowment than Freemasonry, then he is up a creek without a paddle. Of course Hamblin has been drowned before in the same deep flowing Masonic pool. After being dragged out of the water and CPR done to him, his gasping breath just uttered the words, "I don't see Celestial ascent in Freemasonry" and then retired from the debate.