Denouncing misogyny wherever it may surface.

[_Chap]

You make a good point re: the erotica stuff.

Regarding Ms. Jack, though, my point stands. She did not attempt "to smear William in order to stop discussion of the Book of Abraham issues." She just wanted him to stop sexually harassing women. I think we'd all love for the Book of Abraham issues to continue to be discussed.

Oh, you are probably right in your second paragraph.

But his SGW's post was, for him, a huge step and must have cost him a lot of heart-searching. It has already, in my opinion, put a big distance between him, Pahoran, Droopy and Nemesis, and doing that must have required courage.

In such cases I prefer to encourage the good stuff while taking relatively mild exception to the stuff I don't like. People change slowly, and we know how strong the TBM mindset and its associated tribalism can be.

[_Themis]

While it is true that Mrs. Jack put a lot of effort into attempting to smear William in order to stop discussion of the Book of Abraham issues

While I agree with some of what you say, this is clearly wrong. Her efforts were to expose who he is. No one here thought it would ever result in MI not publishing him. Most here want it published. I think Wade might have been the most surprised by MI's decision and went on a rampage for a bit on critics here.

2. He did his best to behave but then allowed the worms here to tempt him into responding in their language.

Most people here behave well. I do not think Will did his best to behave. I think he likes being the center of attention, and demonstrates a real hatred of people he deems enemy's of the church.

[_Buffalo]

You make a good point re: the erotica stuff.

Regarding Ms. Jack, though, my point stands. She did not attempt "to smear William in order to stop discussion of the Book of Abraham issues." She just wanted him to stop sexually harassing women. I think we'd all love for the Book of Abraham issues to continue to be discussed.

Oh, you are probably right in your second paragraph.

But his SGW's post was, for him, a huge step and must have cost him a lot of heart-searching. It has already, in my opinion, put a big distance between him, Pahoran, Droopy and Nemesis, and doing that must have required courage.

In such cases I prefer to encourage the good stuff while taking relatively mild exception to the stuff I don't like. People change slowly, and we know how strong the TBM mindset and its associated tribalism can be.

You're right, of course

[_Kevin Graham]

The erotic apologist says,

William Schryver is a brilliant apologist and will certainly continue to redefine the conversation in the future but right now, he is an embarrassment.

Jesus H. Christ, can this possibly get more bizarre than it already has?

I sense a celebrity death-match between Schryver and Berman, fighting over who can claim the title of the least offensive apologist between the two of them.

Who is more of an embarrassment for the LDS Church? Well, I would have to say Schryver, but then again people actually know who Schryver is. So, not really a fair comparison. While I see nothing morally reprehensible in writing erotica, SGW racks up the stupid points for posting it on the internet while acting as an apologist for a Church that condemns masturbation.

You just can't make this stuff up. This gets more and more bizarre every day I log in.

[Tator]

I already explained this to beastie. She will vouch for me.

I don't know what you think I can vouch for.

by the way, I applaud your denouncement of Will's behavior.

[_3sheets2thewind]

You're lying, as you habitually do. Will's ad hoc insults did not target women as a class; and thoughtful people understand that message board discussions are far too informal to represent a participant's "writing."

I'll grant that a lot of the snippets you dredged up were insulting. The most frequently cited insult, the "circle jerk suite" actually insults men. Your attempt to make a case for "misogyny" therefrom was utterly and cynically dishonest.

For the sake of calling a spade a spade, or to be consistent I feel constrained to say something to you, Pahoran.

While it is true that Mrs. Jack put a lot of effort into attempting to smear William in order to stop discussion of the Book of Abraham issues, he is the one who put his foot in it. He shamed the Church when:
1. He showed up over here to talk to apostates.
2. He did his best to behave but then allowed the worms here to tempt him into responding in their language.
3. He attacked them using horrible language and misogynistic terms.
4. Standing behind his poor use of language.

William Schryver is a brilliant apologist and will certainly continue to redefine the conversation in the future but right now, he is an embarrassment. We as Latter-Day Saints should never try to defend what has been presented on that thread (albeit with malicious intent by a weak minded person). I find what you say here disgusting, Pahoran, and you should watch what you say lest you discredit yourself.

Mrs. Jack, not all LDS think in terms of mindless tribalism, and most would be horrified by what William has written, and at Pahoran's justifications. I will have none of it!

Kudos SGW...I too think WS good do much good as an apologist, but as for now, his language is far too damaging than anything he could produce. It is a real shame that so many LDS dance around the issue of WS vulgarity. I am grateful that you see it for what it is.

[_Jason Bourne]

You're lying, as you habitually do. Will's ad hoc insults did not target women as a class; and thoughtful people understand that message board discussions are far too informal to represent a participant's "writing."

I'll grant that a lot of the snippets you dredged up were insulting. The most frequently cited insult, the "circle jerk suite" actually insults men. Your attempt to make a case for "misogyny" therefrom was utterly and cynically dishonest.

For the sake of calling a spade a spade, or to be consistent I feel constrained to say something to you, Pahoran.

Good for you to take a stand..

While it is true that Mrs. Jack put a lot of effort into attempting to smear William

She did no such thing. She simply outlined what Will said with Will's own words. Will smeared himself.

in order to stop discussion of the Book of Abraham issues, he is the one who put his foot in it. He shamed the Church when:

Did you read the thread? She had no interest is stopping Will's publications, something he can still do in other venues. She simply wanted those who might publish him to see his nasty antics so they could know about the poop they were ready to step in. She did NAMI a favor.

1. He showed up over here to talk to apostates.

And that is bad? Isn't it important to seek out lost sheep? Aren't the apostates here children of God?

2. He did his best to behave but then allowed the worms here to tempt him into responding in their language.

You are so wrong here.I have watched Will post here and he never ever behaved civilly here. Never. He was always mean spirited, nasty and proud of his self proclaimed wit.

3. He attacked them using horrible language and misogynistic terms.

Finally you got something right.

4. Standing behind his poor use of language.

And another one right.

William Schryver is a brilliant apologist

I think Will is pretty bright too. Why he stoops to uncharitable nastiness is a mystery to me.

and will certainly continue to redefine the conversation in the future but right now, he is an embarrassment.

Yepper

We as Latter-Day Saints should never try to defend what has been presented on that thread

I agree. Latter day saints should condemn it. I do even as a NOMinal member.

(albeit with malicious intent by a weak minded person).

You are a fool if you think Ms Jack is weak minded.

I find what you say here disgusting, Pahoran, and you should watch what you say lest you discredit yourself.

Well this raised you up a notch. Good job!

Mrs. Jack, not all LDS think in terms of mindless tribalism, and most would be horrified by what William has written, and at Pahoran's justifications. I will have none of it!

Thank you for this.

[_Dr. Shades]

[MODERATOR NOTE: I have received an e-mail from the real "SeattleGhostWriter."

The person to whom you've been responding on this thread and others is not the actual Timothy R. Berman. In short, we've been had.]

[_rich kelsey]

[MODERATOR NOTE: I have received an e-mail from the real "SeattleGhostWriter."

The person to whom you've been responding on this thread and others is not the actual Timothy R. Berman. In short, we've been had.]

Shades,

I was never convinced that SeattleGhostWriter was the actual author of that thread.

Yet, it doesn’t really matter to me if I was ‘had’ or not. However, I am interested in how this could have happened. You obviously have Stats on SGW’s IP address including the city he lives in.

Can you give us a few more details?

Please.

[_Bond James Bond]

I knew it wasn't him. This faux ghost wrote too well.