Prison break

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Prison break

Post by _Buffalo »

zeezrom wrote:Anyone ever see Shawshank Redemption, The Great Escape, or maybe have you read The Count of Monte Cristo? These all contain excellent prison break stories. When there's a will there's a way, right?

Do you think any prisoners in the afterlife (those in spirit prison, outer darkness, or a lower kingdom) will make a break?

What barriers will God have his gods build? How much of the walls has Michael, the great contractor of heaven, already built to date?

Or will God's "Secure Fence Act" be symbolic of vast distances that separate the prisoners from those with perfect knowledge? Maybe the hell will be so damn far away that nobody could build a space craft to get out of their prison. That is, unless they figured out a way...

So, what makes you believe that God can stop every attempt at illegal immigration in the afterlife?


The bars in spirit prison are made of fruitcake. Sure, you can gnaw your way out, but at what cost?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Prison break

Post by _Buffalo »

The Nehor wrote:
Omnipotence can do a lot of things.


The Mormon God isn't omnipotent, Nehor. You should know that.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_honorentheos
_Emeritus
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 am

Re: Prison break

Post by _honorentheos »

When I was a child growing up in the church, I always imagined spirit prison to be a place. In my mind's eye I visualized it as being separated from paradise by a big chasm.

I've since wondered where I got that impression. When I was old enough to be baptized, my parents went through the missionary discussions with our family for our FHE for a month or so. I remember vividly my dad drawing the plan of salvation, and with it the circle for the spirit world divided in two by a line that separated paradise and spirit prison.

It has to have been over a decade ago since this came out, but the Brigham Young PH/Relief Society manual had a chapter on this subject. In it, BY described the spirit world like this -

"...The spirits that dwell in these tabernacles on this earth, when they leave them go directly into this world of spirits. What! A congregated mass of inhabitants there in spirit, mingling with each other, as they do here? Yes, brethren, they are there together, and if they associate together, and collect together, in clans and in societies as they do here, it is their privilege. No doubt they yet, more or less, see, hear, converse and have to do with each other, both good and bad. (my emphasis) If the Elders of Israel in these latter times go and preach to the spirits in prison, they associate with them, precisely as our Elders associate with the wicked in the flesh, when they go to preach to them (DBY, 378)."

My return missionary friends and I discussed this chapter at length for weeks after the lesson was taught. It was interesting, and kind of exciting to us, to think of the conditions of the spirit world being like this one.

In effect, BY was playing off Milton in Paradise Lost, where Satan says, "The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven."

Anyway, thought I'd throw some actual LDS teachings into the discussion for fun.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Prison break

Post by _Buffalo »

The Nehor wrote:
Yep, but even he cannot defy the will of God. Hence why almost everyone there will leave and there is nothing the devil can do about it. The few that stay will lock the door for themselves on the inside. They will have the power of choice though I shudder to think of what choice in such a debased state would even entail. Thinking of devils as people is giving them too much credit. They're more like the remnants of self-destructed personality.


You take this stuff pretty seriously, don't you, champ?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Re: Prison break

Post by _The Nehor »

zeezrom wrote:So, if people choose to stay, that must mean the place is heaven to them. I realize your favorite place to hang out might be Thanksgiving Point in Lehi but you must understand that not everyone likes that place. Some people would rather hang out at E O's Billiards in Kearns. If you were locked in there, you would probably gnash your teeth and kick the door but many other people would quite enjoy themselves.


Except for Outer Darkness all the kingdoms of glory are kingdoms of joy everlasting. I think those in Outer Darkness are happy in their twisted way but the kind of dark pleasure they enjoy is such that a taste of what it is would probably send most people to their prayers in nightmare terror.

I personally feel the only way hell can be hell or outer darkness or some place other than THE BEST place (i.e. Celestial Kingdom) is if the people in there are stuck (damned) and have no way out. Isn't that what makes it less desirable?


No, it's the company and activities undertaken by the highest kingdom that makes it desirable.

Isn't the whole selling point of the CK that there are no boundaries? There is no end to the worlds you create, the places you fly, etc etc?


One of the selling points. Still, some in the afterlife may not have the desire to create. As to the lower kingdoms being restricted in travel I can't see why God would keep them from the seeing the wonders of the Universes. The places of higher glory would be painful to visit so I imagine they avoid those but other then that, I expect they can go where they like.

The people in the lower kingdoms are happy.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Re: Prison break

Post by _The Nehor »

Buffalo wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
Yep, but even he cannot defy the will of God. Hence why almost everyone there will leave and there is nothing the devil can do about it. The few that stay will lock the door for themselves on the inside. They will have the power of choice though I shudder to think of what choice in such a debased state would even entail. Thinking of devils as people is giving them too much credit. They're more like the remnants of self-destructed personality.


You take this stuff pretty seriously, don't you, champ?


I've experienced too much not to.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_jon
_Emeritus
Posts: 1464
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:15 am

Re: Prison break

Post by _jon »

If we were to say that the closest thing to the Celestial Kingdom here on earth was...say, the Temple.

Would that be the place you want to spend eternity?
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Prison break

Post by _Buffalo »

The Nehor wrote:

I've experienced too much not to.


Oh, right, your hallucinations. I'd forgotten.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Re: Prison break

Post by _The Nehor »

Buffalo wrote:
The Nehor wrote:

I've experienced too much not to.


Oh, right, your hallucinations. I'd forgotten.


Oh, right, your standard condescending mischaracterization. I'd forgotten.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Prison break

Post by _Buffalo »

The Nehor wrote:
Oh, right, your standard condescending mischaracterization. I'd forgotten.


Occam's razor often nicks the faithful.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
Post Reply