PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

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_gramps
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Re: PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

Post by _gramps »

liz3564 wrote:
gramps wrote:Hi Liz,

Could you lead an old blind man to where it has been determined that a majority decided this?

edited to add - I am specifically referring to the MDD thread that was stickied (I know, Shades, not a word).


http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... =1&t=18746

I think that the MDD thread being unpinned may be a "good faith" effort for building the bridge between MDB and MDD. I'll allow Shades to answer that one for himself.

I am, however, not opposed to it being unpinned.

Remember, it's not like we're deleting the thread. Whenever anyone posts something, it appears at the top of the heap again.


Liz,

I was guessing that is all you had.

There is no indication of any such majority determination throughout all those pages. I read them again before I posted my query.

Better you go with the lame "good faith" effort.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
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Re: PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

Post by _zeezrom »

Why do people think the editing of personal attacks is a removal of free speech on this forum? Spurven and Gramps - it appears you two think that. I would sincerely like to know why.

The reason the MDD board is such a horrible place is because they strive to edit people and comments in order to maintain general support of a particular cause.

On this board, I can tell people I received a powerful confirmation of truth from a female God without the fear of being kicked off the board. That is a sign this board is free while the other one is communist.

I also know that if I criticize Joseph Smith, while it is offensive to believers, my comment will not be edited.

Is this a Mormon discussion board or a personal flame war and personal attack board?

Having once been a newcomer to this board, I know how it can feel overwhelming around here for the newbie. When threads go on and on with jabs and attacks between individuals, it comes across to me as a complete and utter waste of time.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

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_why me
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Re: PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

Post by _why me »

Spurven Ten Sing wrote:Meh. I think I will post here much less now. Lame.

Why would you support personal attack posts? I think that people on this forum have forgotten that at the other end of the attack is a human being who has emotions and feelings.

If the board would have continued with its personal attacks, the board would have continued to become more dehumanized.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
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We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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Re: PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

Post by _why me »

zeezrom wrote:
Having once been a newcomer to this board, I know how it can feel overwhelming around here for the newbie. When threads go on and on with jabs and attacks between individuals, it comes across to me as a complete and utter waste of time.


The board was in danger of becoming a forum where people could release their angst and anxiety onto another human being. It needed to be curtailed to save the board. I would also recommend that personal attacks have no place in the telestial forum. One can cuss up a storm, no problem but when one begins to personally attack another individual, especially an individual who uses their own name to post, the forum becomes less human centered.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
_gramps
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Re: PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

Post by _gramps »

zeezrom wrote:Why do people think the editing of personal attacks is a removal of free speech on this forum? Spurven and Gramps - it appears you two think that. I would sincerely like to know why.

The reason the MDD board is such a horrible place is because they strive to edit people and comments in order to maintain general support of a particular cause.

On this board, I can tell people I received a powerful confirmation of truth from a female God without the fear of being kicked off the board. That is a sign this board is free while the other one is communist.

I also know that if I criticize Joseph Smith, while it is offensive to believers, my comment will not be edited.

Is this a Mormon discussion board or a personal flame war and personal attack board?

Having once been a newcomer to this board, I know how it can feel overwhelming around here for the newbie. When threads go on and on with jabs and attacks between individuals, it comes across to me as a complete and utter waste of time.


Hi Zeezrom,

My complaint is only with the decision to unpinn the MDD quotes thread from the top. I do not see that thread as a 'personal attack,' like some others perhaps do. Letting it float freely doesn't change anything in my estimation, since it would be possible under the new rules to keep it at the top anyway, simply by adding a new quote everyday. So, then why change the system? (The personal attack argument loses its validity taking this into account.) It wasn't broken in this regard.

I only read a few people who specifically listed that as a problem in all of the 16-page thread Liz linked above. And to tell you the truth, I don't remember many ever complaining about it. Pep pep may have not really liked it, but look, it brought him in as a participator now. That has to be an added benefit to the quality of this board, no? ;)

I think the believers from that board are quietly chuckling to see just how easy it is to get their way here. I also see no reciprocity in good faith from that board. I guess if MDD were to allow everyone back on that board that they kicked off without even mentioning why, I might be persuaded by the 'good faith' argument. Until then, they are just chuckling behind your backs.

What's next, Shades?
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_why me
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Re: PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

Post by _why me »

gramps wrote:
Hi Zeezrom,

My complaint is only with the decision to unpinn the MDD quotes thread from the top. I do not see that thread as a 'personal attack,' like some others perhaps do. Letting it float freely doesn't change anything in my estimation, since it would be possible under the new rules to keep it at the top anyway, simply by adding a new quote everyday. So, then why change the system? (The personal attack argument loses its validity taking this into account.) It wasn't broken in this regard.



To allow that thread to be permanently placed at the top encourages a board war between this forum and MDD. And this kind of war should be over sooner than later. This is why it was unstuck most likely. There needs to be peace between the two boards.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith
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Re: PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

Post by _sock puppet »

zeezrom wrote:Why do people think the editing of personal attacks is a removal of free speech on this forum? Spurven and Gramps - it appears you two think that. I would sincerely like to know why.

The reason the MDD board is such a horrible place is because they strive to edit people and comments in order to maintain general support of a particular cause.

On this board, I can tell people I received a powerful confirmation of truth from a female God without the fear of being kicked off the board. That is a sign this board is free while the other one is communist.

I also know that if I criticize Joseph Smith, while it is offensive to believers, my comment will not be edited.

Is this a Mormon discussion board or a personal flame war and personal attack board?

Having once been a newcomer to this board, I know how it can feel overwhelming around here for the newbie. When threads go on and on with jabs and attacks between individuals, it comes across to me as a complete and utter waste of time.

Zeez, why do you spend more time in Terrestrial than Celestial? The same reason that others do too. It's more interesting. Denuding the Terrestrial into a second Celestial is not the answer. Those that complain about Terrestrial have the option of limiting their involvement to just the Celestial. They don't. They want to take Terrestrial away from those that like it as it is.

It is board nannying, short and simple. Those people that want to change Terrestrial don't want those that like it the way it is to have such a place. That's jealousy and it's meddling.

There was a day that Shades was a libertarian...

Count me with STS and Gramps.

I've been teetering for months as the forum has been sliding into nanny hands anyway. This may be the tipping point. (why me, stem, and others can rejoice.) I may choose to confine myself and start all new threads in Telestial--but the ninnies and their 'do-gooding' to stop discussion there would likely follow. So it might be time to find another board altogether.
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Re: PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

Post by _zeezrom »

I guess I came to a realization. I don't like it when people are attacked online and I also don't like having all the moderation. What does that mean? An impossible scenario.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Dr. Shades
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Re: PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

Post by _Dr. Shades »

liz3564 wrote:I would also like to nominate Blixa for Mod. :-)

Please do not nominate anyone for the position of moderator. I insist that the idea to become a moderator MUST originate with the volunteer him or herself.

I think that the MDD thread being unpinned may be a "good faith" effort for building the bridge between MDB and MDD. I'll allow Shades to answer that one for himself.

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! I have no interest whatsoever in "building bridges" with ANY other message board ANYWHERE. We/I "cater" to nobody but our own members. Literally, no one else counts.

People here (at least, those who spoke up about it) seemed to think that it was a net-negative, not a net-positive. But to give you a peek at the man behind the curtain, I personally liked having it stickied.

why me wrote:I would also recommend that personal attacks have no place in the telestial forum. One can cuss up a storm, no problem but when one begins to personally attack another individual, especially an individual who uses their own name to post, the forum becomes less human centered.

I'm afraid I must draw the line somewhere. Free speech MUST rule the day, even when it comes to personal attacks.

In other words, the Telestial Forum will remain as-is.

gramps wrote:My complaint is only with the decision to unpinn the MDD quotes thread from the top. I do not see that thread as a 'personal attack,' like some others perhaps do. Letting it float freely doesn't change anything in my estimation, since it would be possible under the new rules to keep it at the top anyway, simply by adding a new quote everyday. So, then why change the system? (The personal attack argument loses its validity taking this into account.) It wasn't broken in this regard.

You make a good point.

I think the believers from that board are quietly chuckling to see just how easy it is to get their way here. I also see no reciprocity in good faith from that board. I guess if MDD were to allow everyone back on that board that they kicked off without even mentioning why, I might be persuaded by the 'good faith' argument. Until then, they are just chuckling behind your backs.

Hopefully I made the point clear when I responded to Liz, but believe it or not I made my decisions only because of the thread wherein I solicited opinions about whether or not I was responsible for the culture here. Had everyone said that things are A-O.K. just the way they are, then I wouldn't've changed a thing, MD&D board or no MD&D board.

What's next, Shades?

Don't worry, there's a certain line over which I absolutely will not cross.

As luck would have it, we've had this whole "personal attacks in the Terrestrial Form" debate before. It's an ongoing issue, and for all I know it'll continue to be an ongoing issue.

why me wrote:To allow that thread to be permanently placed at the top encourages a board war between this forum and MDD.

Ain't nothin' wrong with that, just so long as it doesn't get personal (with real-life information, real-life pictures, etc.).

And this kind of war should be over sooner than later. This is why it was unstuck most likely.

Nope, that's not why it was unstuck.

There needs to be peace between the two boards.

Why? That's a serious question.

sock puppet wrote:Zeez, why do you spend more time in Terrestrial than Celestial? The same reason that others do too. It's more interesting. Denuding the Terrestrial into a second Celestial is not the answer.

Your point is 100% valid, of course. But let's look at it another way: Would we be better served by turning the Terrestrial Forum into a second Telestial Forum?

It is board nannying, short and simple. Those people that want to change Terrestrial don't want those that like it the way it is to have such a place. That's jealousy and it's meddling.

There was a day that Shades was a libertarian...

Believe it or not, I liked things better the way they were, too.

But at the end of the day, what good is a libertarian utopia if nobody wants to live there?

I've been teetering for months as the forum has been sliding into nanny hands anyway. This may be the tipping point. (why me, stem, and others can rejoice.) I may choose to confine myself and start all new threads in Telestial--but the ninnies and their 'do-gooding' to stop discussion there would likely follow.

Like I said, there's a certain line over which I absolutely will not cross. The Telestial Forum will stay exactly the way it is, just like the Celestial Forum will stay exactly the way it is. You have no worries on that account.

So it might be time to find another board altogether.

Who knows; if you're right about all of this, maybe the Telestial Forum will become more popular than the Terrestrial Forum. That would be fine by me; they all have their place.

Either way, though, I truly hope you'll stick around and give things a try before writing us off altogether.

zeezrom wrote:I guess I came to a realization. I don't like it when people are attacked online and I also don't like having all the moderation. What does that mean? An impossible scenario.

The balance between personal attacks and amount of moderation is a zero-sum game. If you add up the two totals, it always equals 100, no more and no less. In other words, if the personal attacks are at 1 or 2, then the moderation is at 99 or 98. On the other hand, if the personal attacks are at, say, 85 or 86, then the moderation is at 15 or 14, respectively.

Ain't nothin' to do but get used to it.

Anyhow, I'm nothing if not gregarious. I think I'll start a poll wherein I ask people whether the "MA&Dhouse quote page" thread should be re-stickied or not.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

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Re: PLEASE READ! Changes to the "culture" of MormonDiscussions

Post by _Dr. Shades »

[MODERATOR NOTE: By "personal attack," before we'll moderate it it'll have to be obvious and blatant. Mere criticism isn't enough to warrant moderation on our part.

ALSO, if a criticism has a degree of flair and/or panache, it'll be a lot less likely to be moderated. I CAN'T OVERESTIMATE THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT LAST SENTENCE. For example, the phrase "You're a douchebag" will be far more likely to be edited than the phrase, "When you entered mortality, the heavens wept."]
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
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