Have you ever tried being a forthright NOM?

[_cacheman]

Hi Zeezrom,

I've followed your story a bit over the last year or so, because there are some similarities between your experience and mine. I did try to be an open NOM for a while, but it became increasingly clear to me that it was not going to work (for me or the ward leadership). Now, when I say I was an 'open NOM', that doesn't mean that I was very vocal about my personal beliefs. I am a quiet person by nature, and prone to avoiding confrontation. However, despite my consistent silence in meetings, my bishop put me on formal probation (I think that's what it was called) simply for the thoughts I expressed in bishop interviews. I was not allowed to participate (ie. answer questions) in priesthood meetings, or give prayers. I was also not allowed to be in the circle for relatives ordinations. I was allowed to continue my scouting calling for nearly a year until they introduced a more religious component into the program. At that point I was asked to step down. The bishop hinted more than once that he was having discussions with the Stake President about the need for a disciplinary council, but nothing ever came of it.

To make a long story short, it would have been a wiser move in retrospect, to have ceased any church participation from the start. My attempts at participating as a non-believer did not help in regards to familial or neighborly relations, and my happiness and comfort level increased dramatically once I cut all ties with the church. In the end, leaving Utah with my family ended up being the most positive thing we could do. That might be something to consider.

Best wishes trying to figure out the best route for you and your family.

cacheman

[_zeezrom]

Cacheman,

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. There is a guy in my EQ who mentions things from time to time about stuff like the 1st vision having multiple versions and whatnot. Nothing bad has happened to him yet.

I do not have a desire to stand up and say, "Hey everyone! The Book of Abraham is a hoax!" nah, that is not something that belongs in the Mormon chapels for the TBMs. What belongs in the chapel are ideas that can add to their experience. I don't want to take things away but rather add if possible.

For example, Mormons have a celestial pantheon just like the ancient Greeks. They are widely diverse and large in number. They are waiting for our imaginations to color them! We have only scratched the surface. Let's explore the ideas.

Women will be holding the priesthood someday. Let's be the first to die for the cause. People will read in their church history books about us. Who will join me?

Does church really need to be boring? Should people sit quietly in fear of how others will react? Should I fear excommunication for boisterous outbursts of divine exclaimations? I hope to either see change, separate myself completely, or go down in a great ball of flame.

[_cacheman]

Cacheman,

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. There is a guy in my EQ who mentions things from time to time about stuff like the 1st vision having multiple versions and whatnot. Nothing bad has happened to him yet.

I do not have a desire to stand up and say, "Hey everyone! The Book of Abraham is a hoax!" nah, that is not something that belongs in the Mormon chapels for the TBMs. What belongs in the chapel are ideas that can add to their experience. I don't want to take things away but rather add if possible.

For example, Mormons have a celestial pantheon just like the ancient Greeks. They are widely diverse and large in number. They are waiting for our imaginations to color them! We have only scratched the surface. Let's explore the ideas.

Women will be holding the priesthood someday. Let's be the first to die for the cause. People will read in their church history books about us. Who will join me?

Does church really need to be boring? Should people sit quietly in fear of how others will react? Should I fear excommunication for boisterous outbursts of divine exclaimations? I hope to either see change, separate myself completely, or go down in a great ball of flame.

Lol. Maybe what the LDS church needs is more people like you to effect change and shake things up.

cacheman

[_LDS truthseeker]

I bring up stuff now and then - but in a friendly way to kind of gauge the crowd. It was easier when I taught the teenage class, I use to bring up stuff all the time and just waited for someone to tell their parents - but to my surprise the students really liked the controversial stuff instead of the boring chruch teachings they get every year. Some adults appreciate it too.

[_just me]

Just Me,

What if I raised my hand in SS and said, "In addition to getting answers from HF, I have found through beautiful, personal experience that prayer to HM can be answered. In fact, I'm willing to bet HM is even more responsive than HF. Plus, she has a much better track record historically. Since praying more to her, I have been happier."

That is not negative in any way, Just Me. What do you think?

I think you would make many people extremely uncomfortable and end up in the bishops office. Let me know where to be so I can watch it go down. ;)

A belief in praying to Mother is considered apostate. Trust me.

[_zeezrom]

Well,

Here's how I see it. I can either sit in silence and boredom, wishing I was somewhere else and feeling sorry for myself or I can be engaged in a cause with a purpose. The purpose being to learn through exertion and increasing skill about how to express my feelings regarding something I'm passionate about. I have no desire to tear the church down or convince people they are wrong. I only hope to show something else; something new. (was that proper use of the semi-colon?)

I'm right in the middle of a rain forest and just took my third left... Or was that my fourth...

[_zeezrom]

I am literally walking in God's Eden. Have any of you ever been to the Northwestern U.S.? This seems like a great place to pray to God. Shrug, I'll give it a try...

[_Dr. Shades]

In other words, in the TRI, you tell the bishop, "Look, I don't believe any of this s*** but believe I'm worthy for a TR."

If you don't believe in any of it, then why would you even WANT a temple recommend? What good would it possibly do you?

[_zeezrom]

In other words, in the TRI, you tell the bishop, "Look, I don't believe any of this s*** but believe I'm worthy for a TR."

If you don't believe in any of it, then why would you even WANT a temple recommend? What good would it possibly do you?

I don't really want one. I was thinking there might be a chance I would end up in a TRI if I'm active again. Maybe not.

[_moksha]

I am literally walking in God's Eden. Have any of you ever been to the Northwestern U.S.? This seems like a great place to pray to God. Shrug, I'll give it a try...

A pine covered countryside with or without fresh farm smells seems like a wonderful place for meditation and prayerful reflection. Hope you find some degree of bliss and enlightenment.