Animal souls.

[_cinepro]

The Gospel and Animals

The tenth President of the Church, Joseph Fielding Smith, has also expressed concern for animal welfare. In 1928, as an apostle, he stated in a general conference of the Church: “So we see that the Lord intends to save, not only the earth and the heavens, not only man who dwells upon the earth, but all things which he has created. The animals, the fishes of the sea, the fowls of the air, as well as man, are to be recreated, or renewed, through the resurrection, for they too are living souls.” (Conference Report, October 1928, p. 100.)

[_Quasimodo]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the G15 get more letters and questions regarding this topic than any other doctrinal or policy issue. I can picture thousands of little old ladies filling mailbags wanting to know what happens to their dear Fifi after death because the dogs sealing ordinances haven't been performed.

This much be the #1 reason that the prophets sent out the letter last year saying don't bother us with your inane questions. Go to your bishop or stake pres.

Maybe "Fifi" needs to be dead dunked. :)

That is kinda the point of my question. If we have souls that can be sealed, why not Fifi? Is there an official LDS statement about the survival of animals beyond death?

[_Quasimodo]

The Gospel and Animals

The tenth President of the Church, Joseph Fielding Smith, has also expressed concern for animal welfare. In 1928, as an apostle, he stated in a general conference of the Church: “So we see that the Lord intends to save, not only the earth and the heavens, not only man who dwells upon the earth, but all things which he has created. The animals, the fishes of the sea, the fowls of the air, as well as man, are to be recreated, or renewed, through the resurrection, for they too are living souls.” (Conference Report, October 1928, p. 100.)

Wow cinepro, you answered my question while I was typing it! So, in earlier LDS doctrine, everything alive has a soul and is resurrected.

Is this still doctrine? If so, bc will have to rethink his statement that rats are soulless.

[_Patriarchal gripe]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the G15 get more letters and questions regarding this topic than any other doctrinal or policy issue. I can picture thousands of little old ladies filling mailbags wanting to know what happens to their dear Fifi after death because the dogs sealing ordinances haven't been performed.

This much be the #1 reason that the prophets sent out the letter last year saying don't bother us with your inane questions. Go to your bishop or stake pres.

Maybe "Fifi" needs to be dead dunked. :)

That is kinda the point of my question. If we have souls that can be sealed, why not Fifi? Is there an official LDS statement about the survival of animals beyond death?

Maybe off topic a bit, but one of my favorite scenes in Mormon fiction is found in Levi Peterson's "The Backslider". Frank Windham and his brother are young boys who decide that they need to baptize their cat in a local river. Funny scene.

Maybe Fifi needs to be "live" dunked. Fifi has about the same degree of "choice" in the matter as most of the 8 year olds that get dunked.

[_Hoops]

anything that has the breath of life has a soul. Humans are a higher order of creation so we are responsible for taking care of animals. And, yes, they will be in heaven with us.

That's not to say you should not have killed the rat. You should. That's part of being a caretaker.

[_MsJack]

I don't believe animals have souls. I could be wrong; it's not something I deeply care about. But while sharing heaven with your fluffy doggie or kitty sounds fun, sharing it with all of the fleas and tapeworms and parasites that have ever populated the planet sounds less fun.

This is from a blog post I did when we got a new betta fish:

Meet our newest member of the family, Bitey.

Bitey is a betta fish. I got him because our two-year-old daughter Harley just adores animals and I figured it was time for her to have a pet. Betta fish are great because they don’t need an aquarium or a filter and are extremely easy to care for. I don’t have to pet him or clean up his poop or anything like that, and who’s going to mess with a pet named Bitey? Even a fish named Bitey sounds totally badass.

The last pet I had was a batch of Sea Monkeys I purchased shortly after I got married. They only lasted a few weeks before they were all floating at the top of their tank, and I gave up on having pets after that. Just in case you were wondering, my skill at caring for Sea Monkeys is right on par with my skill at nurturing small children.

My ex-roommate, Laura, had an adorable kitty named Tigger, but she was kind of her responsibility. I just played with her and tried not to step on her tail too much.

So, Bitey is here now and Harley is just thrilled. This morning, as we began heading out the door to church, Harley eagerly grabbed Bitey’s tank and attempted to take him out the door with her. Paul crossed over to her and gently removed Bitey’s tank from her paws.

PAUL: Sweetie, Bitey doesn’t need to go to church, his salvation is already sure.
JACK: Harley, Bitey doesn’t have a soul.

Our interfaith parenting skills rule.

[_Quasimodo]

anything that has the breath of life has a soul. Humans are a higher order of creation so we are responsible for taking care of animals. And, yes, they will be in heaven with us.

That's consoling. If I survive death, so do they. I'd love to be reunited with all of my old animal friends someday.

That's not to say you should not have killed the rat. You should. That's part of being a caretaker.

Yeah, it had to go. I still feel bad about it, though.

I'm not a vegetarian (tried that for a year once). I do still enjoy a good steak. I guess that means I'm letting others do my killing for me.

[_Quasimodo]

I don't believe animals have souls. I could be wrong; it's not something I deeply care about. But while sharing heaven with your fluffy doggie or kitty sounds fun, sharing it with all of the fleas and tapeworms and parasites that have ever populated the planet sounds less fun.

This is from a blog post I did when we got a new betta fish:

Meet our newest member of the family, Bitey.

Bitey is a betta fish. I got him because our two-year-old daughter Harley just adores animals and I figured it was time for her to have a pet. Betta fish are great because they don’t need an aquarium or a filter and are extremely easy to care for. I don’t have to pet him or clean up his poop or anything like that, and who’s going to mess with a pet named Bitey? Even a fish named Bitey sounds totally badass.

The last pet I had was a batch of Sea Monkeys I purchased shortly after I got married. They only lasted a few weeks before they were all floating at the top of their tank, and I gave up on having pets after that. Just in case you were wondering, my skill at caring for Sea Monkeys is right on par with my skill at nurturing small children.

My ex-roommate, Laura, had an adorable kitty named Tigger, but she was kind of her responsibility. I just played with her and tried not to step on her tail too much.

So, Bitey is here now and Harley is just thrilled. This morning, as we began heading out the door to church, Harley eagerly grabbed Bitey’s tank and attempted to take him out the door with her. Paul crossed over to her and gently removed Bitey’s tank from her paws.

PAUL: Sweetie, Bitey doesn’t need to go to church, his salvation is already sure.
JACK: Harley, Bitey doesn’t have a soul.

Our interfaith parenting skills rule.

Your blog excerpt is VERY funny and well written.

Personally, I'm not at all sure that we (humans) have souls. If we do, it seems illogical to me that animals do not (mosquitoes and all).

[_beefcalf]

Where is the cutoff between lifeforms with souls and lifeforms without?

Dogs do, right?

Rats? Toads? Grasshoppers? Spiders? Brine Shrimp? Amoebas? Plankton? Bacteria? A virus?

Does a protein sheath enclosing a clump of ribonucleic acid qualify as life and therefor have an immortal soul?

Yes?

What if you remove the protein sheath? Does an RNA molecule contain a soul?

What if you use an enzyme to slice the RNA into its component nucleotides? Does a molecule of uracil have a soul?

Does a carbon atom have a soul?

Does an electron have a soul?

Where is the line?

You can't draw the line because there isn't one. Life is a grand panoply which stretches from tepid, singular chemical reactions to the full-blown citric acid cycle and meiosis.

Carbon atoms don't have souls and neither do rats or humans.

[_MCB]

My own personal belief is that all animals have souls. However, the souls differ in nature just as much as the species.

I may be biased, but I think that the souls of dogs are superior in nature to the souls of cats.