The biggest fallout for Mormonism from Warren Jeffs

[_Buffalo]

Harmony,

I think you are correct in this. But my enthusiasm for this line of reasoning stems from my belief that when it will be an effective argument against the Book of Mormon in my discussions with believers.

I am not expecting many TBMs to analyze this for themselves, or to see how this reveals the flaw of Moroni's promise on their own. But I do think that if the argument is presented to a believer, it might be a very effective way of getting them to begin the process of analyzing it for themselves.

Agreed.

[_Infymus]

The biggest fallout is going to be that outside of Utah, nobody is going to know the difference between the FLDS and the LDS.

To the media there is only one word that separates FLDS from LDS and that is "Fundamentalist". Everything else is the same - temple ceremonies, Book of Mormon, Mormon, garments, priesthood.

Even one article on MSNBC stated, "A witness appointed by Jeffs read from Mormon scripture."

Mormons are polygamists, aren't they? Sure they are, even if the LDS ones lie and say they aren't.

[_DarkHelmet]

This certainly contradicts the idea that if one prays about and receives an answer that the Book of Mormon is true then that automatically implies that the LDS church is true. Warren Jeffs believes in the Book of Mormon, hell he entered the entire book into the record in his trial, and read from it as part of his defense.

Jeffs defending himself and his religion before unrightious judges was just like the story of Abinidi, and I'm sure that's how the primary and Sunday School teachers in the FLDS meetings will teach it.

[_Sethbag]

Another fallout will be one the LDS contribute to themselves.

The LDS spokespeople always stand up and say something like "the LDS church has no relation at all to the polygamist sects" or whatever. Then Warren Jeffs stands up and claims the Book of Mormon, reads from it, bears testimony of Joseph Smith, etc.

The casual observer (assuming he/she can be bothered to pay close enough attention to notice these things) will see this:

LDS Church = Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, etc.
Warren Jeffs' church = Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, etc.

The observer thinks hey, the LDS spokesman just told me there's no relation between them and Jeffs, but Jeffs is talking about the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, etc. WTF? The observer will almost certainly not go find MADB and read the apologetic responses. Instead, they'll hear the LDS spokesperson seem to be hiding something or playing some kind of symantic game, and the LDS will be discredited in that observer's mind.

[_beastie]

I just listened to excerpts from Jeff's tapes. It is striking how similar he is to Smith, and how the apologetics used to defend Smith could also be applied to Jeffs.

He used God to coerce young females into being his "wives" and having sex with him. Joseph Smith did the exact same thing. He thought, or claimed, that God was "sending" him these young girls, and Joseph Smith thought the exact same thing. The young girls, by and large, seemed to genuinely believe that God wanted them to do what Jeffs said, and so did Joseph Smith's victims. And yes, they believe that via the same formula - God reveals his will and truth to you somehow, through "revelation".

Listen to the one tape where Jeffs reveals a "revelation" to his victims. Boy, I can imagine Joseph Smith doing the same thing. "My dear sisters, an angel with a sword commanded me...."

Finding out these details should trouble every LDS who has any familiarity with Smith's escapades. But it won't, any more than finding out these details will trouble every FLDS. It's the power of belief combined with the power of denial. Incredible.