Unrighteous Feelings and Emotions

[_Hoops]

I meant to respond to Beefcalf but the quote function won't work. So I'll do what I can from memory.

The natural man is at odds with God. The feelings associated with being human are not what makes at odds with God. God created those feelings, skewed though they are by sin (by sin I mean the urepentant), so why would He make those the subject of sin? He wouldn't. And has not.

Yes, God's standard is impossibly high. That's the point. The difference between His Holiness and us. Fortunately, that gap has been bridged. And those for whom the gap has been bridged, those feelings - anger, lust, despair, hopelessness, etc. - are still around.

I'm sure I missed something, but you get the idea.

[_beefcalf]

I meant to respond to Beefcalf but the quote function won't work. So I'll do what I can from memory.

The natural man is at odds with God. The feelings associated with being human are not what makes at odds with God. God created those feelings, skewed though they are by sin (by sin I mean the urepentant), so why would He make those the subject of sin? He wouldn't. And has not.

Yes, God's standard is impossibly high. That's the point. The difference between His Holiness and us. Fortunately, that gap has been bridged. And those for whom the gap has been bridged, those feelings - anger, lust, despair, hopelessness, etc. - are still around.

I'm sure I missed something, but you get the idea.

Thanks for your observations, hoops.

I want to try to make it clear why I have difficulty in believing this.

Christians claim God is all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving and completely just.

Christians believe that God created us. Yet we are imperfect.

God will not allow us to return to him imperfect.

He makes arrangements for Jesus to be punished for the imperfections He himself gave us.

God offers us a choice: swear fealty to Jesus and obtain heavenly glory, or reject Jesus and suffer for eternity.

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Let me try to translate this metaphorically into something which I hope will illustrate why I have a problem with this:

Mr. Smith is the landlord for many buildings. He rents his apartments to many people.

After you sign the lease, you discover that the plumbing, heating and electrical systems in the building are not up to code.

You don't have the money to fix the plumbing, heating and electrical problems, and you don't have the licenses or skill to do the work yourself.

The laws of your municipality allow the city to fine the tenant, not the owner, for code violations.

Mr. Smith tells you his property manager can keep the city inspectors away as long as you pay him a small fee every month.

The property manager can often help you to restore power or heat or mop up a flooded bathroom, but he doesn't actually fix the problems themselves.

As long as you keep paying the property manager, everything will be fine.

If you stop paying the property manager, Mr. Smith himself may call the city inspectors to have them drop by your apartment. Too bad for you.

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This God of Christianity and his son Jesus may very well be the Gods of this world. But please don't ask me to accept the obviously false notion that they are 'just'.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

just... Turn it off!

[_Jersey Girl]

And the the message was given that we shouldn't feel those things...or give in to those feelings.

Well, I might be the horse of a different color or just, you know, wrong ;-) but...

I think it's okay to feel those things but might not be a good idea to act on them depending on the situation at hand.

[_Hoops]

Christians believe that God created us. Yet we are imperfect.

Well, there is The Garden. So He did create us perfect - perfectly able to live with Him, or perfectly able to choose otherwise. Adam chose otherwise. I understand the LDS view on this is that there is no inherent sin... but I would ask, "where is this perfect person?"

God will not allow us to return to him imperfect.

I would put it "unperfected."

He makes arrangements for Jesus to be punished for the imperfections He himself gave us.

Incorrect. I choose to be sinful. A choice I freely make.

God offers us a choice: swear fealty to Jesus and obtain heavenly glory, or reject Jesus and suffer for eternity.

Incorrect. That is not the choice. The choice is between knowing who God is and knowing who I am. I choose to recognize that I have sinned and will sin. And that He does not.

This God of Christianity and his son Jesus may very well be the Gods of this world. But please don't ask me to accept the obviously false notion that they are 'just'.

It may be obvious to you but its not obvious to me. If anything, God is well beyond equal measurements of Just and Merciful. He's offered Himself as the payment for my sins. How is that not Mercy? If He were equally Just, I would have to pay for my sins (in what way, I'm not sure), but I don't.

[_beefcalf]

Well, there is The Garden. So He did create us perfect - perfectly able to live with Him, or perfectly able to choose otherwise. Adam chose otherwise. I understand the LDS view on this is that there is no inherent sin... but I would ask, "where is this perfect person?"

Hoops,

How many children did Adam and Eve have prior to the fall of Adam? Prior to partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

[_plunderpunk]

suppression leads to record porn consumption.

[_Hoops]

Interesting question, Beefcalf, one that I had not heard before.
My understanding is that they had none.

[_why me]

Hopelessness and despair were specifically pointed out as "tools of the adversary" rather than being labeled unrighteous. But it was all in the same talk.

They are tools of the adversary because they deny the human being the joy that he or she deserves as spirit beings on a human journey. These two emotions can also lead to suicide.

We, humans need to be shocked and awed by life and all its beauty. The opposite is a tool of the devil.

[_why me]

And the the message was given that we shouldn't feel those things...or give in to those feelings.

I believe that you heard this information in a talk by a lay member of the ward, right? If so, I wouldn't take it too seriously. We are entitled to our own opinions. However, what you should have done was approach the speaker with your questions. Nothing wrong in that. But most likely you were silent and came to the board to complain.