The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

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_Simon Belmont

Re: The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

Post by _Simon Belmont »

Gadianton wrote:Huh. Simon, old friend and one-time colleague, where did I criticize conservativism?

Did you read my post?


Sorry if it was a bit off topic, but I was referring to this post:

Gadianton wrote:Now did he get sick of right-wing rhetoric in general? Only he can answer that. I can tell you that at BYU, oddly enough, the econ professors were anything but spiritual, in fact, they boasted of having the lowest spirituality ratings of any school at the university. I never recall hearing right-wing propoganda from any of them even though most were conservative. Interestingly, what seemed to be the most intense worry from them was their own intelligence.


Do you disagree with my thoughts on the Austrian School? Do you think I was unfair with Chicago?


I don't know the first thing about anything else you're talking about on this thread.

Carry on.

(cue the "You don't know the first thing about anything on any-thread!" comment from someone).
_Gadianton
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Re: The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

Post by _Gadianton »

Tarski,

I'm sure you'd be in a great position for getting into economics if you ever want to be completely bored out of your skull.

I will also say that pure math rigor seemed to be less of an emphasis than "quirky" math rigor. if that makes sense. So, how do I put it; a friend of mine who had a mean math and engineering background got owned in a lower-level econ course he took to show me how smart he was, where most if not all the students had less math than he did.

logical intuition is what they prize. Clearly, this is something all top mathematicians have, but not all math majors do. That's how it strikes me today, but hey, these folks are your peers so you could probably tell me better.

Von Neumann did more for economics in his spare time than most economists do in their entire careers added together.
_Gadianton
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Re: The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

Post by _Gadianton »

Simon,

You quoted me saying,

A total bad ass wrote:I never recall hearing right-wing propoganda from any of them even though most were conservative.


What part of this statement led you to believe that I had a problem with conservative economics?

You would be correct if you were to accuse me of having a problem with right-wing propoganda.

I have never thoroughly discussed my own position on economics. For one thing, I think the subject is very hard, and way above my ability to have a serious opinion, and to the extent I do have an opinion, it's very conflicted and poorly thought out.
_Simon Belmont

Re: The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

Post by _Simon Belmont »

Gadianton wrote:
What part of this statement led you to believe that I had a problem with conservative economics?


Yeah... well, I suck at this subject. I assumed that the two were ideas "right-wing" and "conservative" were the same. But, of course, they aren't.
_Tarski
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Re: The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

Post by _Tarski »

Gadianton wrote:
Von Neumann did more for economics in his spare time than most economists do in their entire careers added together.

That seems about right.

As for my opinion of mathematical economics, well, my opinion is only that Droopy hasn't earned the right to have an opinion.

In truth, I have more fun getting your angle on this than I do talking to my economics buddy across campus.
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_bcspace
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Re: The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

Post by _bcspace »

No one who has taken a basic econ course would dispute that the government can in theory create wealth.


I minored in economics and I dispute that. It was in fact a subject of discussion in Econ 110. A government might appear to be creating wealth because it's running a business/industry. But the private sector running the same business will invariably make a better profit if there is profit (wealth creation) to be made. The only way for a government to do better is to become a business itself in which case it's no longer a government.

Taxing and spending (one of the diferences between a government and a business) also does not create wealth as it takes from the efficient wealth creators and gives to those who are not as efficient (else they would have had enough wealth in the first place).
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_Gadianton
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Re: The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

Post by _Gadianton »

Thanks Droopy jr.

Droopy wrote:But the private sector running the same business will invariably make a better profit...


In other words, in your econ class you affirmed that not only is it logically possible for a government to create wealth but that government does create wealth. You might be more pro government than I am, BC.

You do understand the difference between theoretical possibility and reality don't you, BC? There are several theoretical models whereby a government can "create wealth" that don't constrain it to act like a profit-maximizing firm. The seemingly important question is whether or not any of these models reflect reality.

That's the hard part.

I'm actually giving Droops some credit here. I think it's possible that something from the Austrian school he has read constrains government to wealth transfer not only a priori, but by definitional fiat. This would explain some of the language he uses in his, er, discussions and some of the comments I've seen on Austrian blogs.
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Re: The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

Post by _Pollypinks »

My dad is from the left because he grew up poor white trash, watching the haves and the have nots, and being hungry most of his life. When The New Deal came to town, it literally saved his bacon. One of his idols is Eleanor Roosevelt, because of her non-stop work in pushing herself to help the poor, as well as pushing her husband to help the poor. "Pulling oneself up by one's bootstraps" only works for some. And dad has always wondered, since he was able to become educated with the G.I. bill, why everybody cannot be helped in like manner, thus helping the entire economy. Or why everybody cannot be helped health wise, as they are at the V.A., thus helping the entire country AND economy. So I grew up in a home with converts for parents, who were so liberal they dared not speak their views at church. Right down to the pro-choice stance, which I grew up with, and have always had, even though I lied to fundamentalist friends just so they wouldn't shun me.
_MrStakhanovite
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Re: The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

Gadianton wrote:What part of this statement led you to believe that I had a problem with conservative economics? You would be correct if you were to accuse me of having a problem with right-wing propaganda.


You’ll have to take it easy on ol’ Belmont there Dean, he’s begun his final descent into irrelevancy, but he’s fighting tooth n nail to still warrant a response from anyone.

I can’t agree with you more on the propaganda comment, as someone who is openly Republican around here, “Right Wing Pundits” infuriate me. It’s not so much their views, as much as the silly ways they go about supporting and defending them.

Autodidacts like Droopy tend to lack that humility that comes with a comprehensive survey education in the social sciences and humanities. I know Droopy is close to getting his undergrad degree from a good state school (much to his credit), but it was a little too late in life, and his commitment to his homespun ideology is firmly in place. I imagine with the way higher education has become, professors are just happy to have a motivated student who is putting effort into the class and are quick to praise him ( I imagine Droopy is a blast to have a class filled with stoned college kids who are just looking to make their grade and move on), but they don’t temper that praise with constructive criticism, and if they do, it falls on deaf ears it seems.

Economics is probably one of the hardest Social Science disciplines in my opinion, and my experience with just two macroeconomic classes left me intimidated and convinced I know almost nothing about economics, and even less before I took those classes. This is why you don’t see me debating economic policy on the board or in chat, the best I can muster is quoting or sourcing some economist who seems to be agreeing with my point, but that is just playing a weird game of Pokemon, where you try to outdo the others with bigger and smarter experts.

I also don’t get the open disdain fellow American style Conservatives have for fellow American style Liberals, but I think it has to do with making complex issues easier to deal with. Droopy loves to play 7 degrees of Socialism, where he links a public figure to some radical fringe thinker and once having done so, can simply disregard that person, instead of having to engage the complex issue. This is a favorite tactic of Glenn Beck, who did a great demonstration of this on his TV show with the chalkboard. This is blatantly a genetic fallacy; true conclusions can follow from false propositions (crap, that’s what Getteir is all about).

Another point of departure is the often repeated claim that the academy is dominated by extreme Liberals, and even if this is true, that is exactly how I want it. The whole reason you *should* go to a University is to have your cherished beliefs challenged, and learn everything you can from opposing viewpoints. You should be aware of your own cognitive biases and challenge them, not attend some institution where people just affirm with whatever you believe.

The lack of real analysis and legwork in “Austrian” economics has some real explanatory power with regards to why guys n gals like Droopy are so attracted to it. It’s just empty exposition, and since they don’t make use of the powerful tools other economic “paradigms” do, you can just pick it up and read it. I think that’s why books by Ann Coulter and the like sell so well, she pretty much gives a worldview, assert is aggressively with some weak evidence (if any at all), and you’ve got all you need to do. When the pundit has spoken, the thinking has been done.

I think it’s true that Droopy mimics all of this to the letter, I don’t think I’ve ever seen him actually get into the nitty gritty of any issue, it’s more or less a marathon rant that alternates between gainsaying or employing the genetic fallacy.

Great thread by the way, I’ve enjoyed it a great deal.
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Re: The Austrian School: A Window to the soul of Droopy

Post by _Pollypinks »

I wonder how many body guards Glenn Beck has. There has to be a few, cuz the guy is the meanest, stupidest bastard I can find in America right now. Imagine finding millions of really stupid people to believe your stupidity, and winding up filthy rich. Pronounced nearly two years ago that all who go to churches that proclaim social justice must leave immediately, for in one year we'd all be communists. Well, I didn't leave, and I'm not. Doesn't know his Book of Mormon.
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