Themis wrote:While I agree, it seems more used as an excuse. The Hoffman case is a classic case in which inspiration would have been very helpful, and was happening with a number of individuals who are considered the most open to inspiration, yet got none. In reality we see no real inspiration from any divine being, and people are left to themselves to figure it out. Some are better then others, which is why some bishops seem to be so inspired and others much less so.
I can agree the general sentiment you offer.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
If the Holy Ghost inspired his appointment then how can He be trusted? If the Holy Ghost didn't inspire his appointment then how can any decision by a SP be trusted as inspired?
Even Jesus called Judas......
None of this has any bearing on whether or not the calling was inspired. To assume that such a calling must be free of problems is an acceptance of predestination which is a false doctrine that denies agency.
If the Holy Ghost inspired his appointment then how can He be trusted? If the Holy Ghost didn't inspire his appointment then how can any decision by a SP be trusted as inspired?
Even Jesus called Judas......
None of this has any bearing on whether or not the calling was inspired. To assume that such a calling must be free of problems is an acceptance of predestination which is a false doctrine that denies agency.
Appeal to the Bible = out of touch Mopologetics still not equipped to handle secular criticism.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
If the Holy Ghost inspired his appointment then how can He be trusted? If the Holy Ghost didn't inspire his appointment then how can any decision by a SP be trusted as inspired?
Even Jesus called Judas......
None of this has any bearing on whether or not the calling was inspired. To assume that such a calling must be free of problems is an acceptance of predestination which is a false doctrine that denies agency.
Thanks for showing Jesus wasn't inspired either.
Oh wait didn't Jesus know Judas was going to betray him? That's a bit different. If the stake pres knew the bishop was going to do this than that is pretty sick and twisted.
A person must be called of God to serve in the Church (see Articles of Faith 1:5). Leaders seek the guidance of the Spirit in determining whom to call. They consider the worthiness that may be required for the calling. They also consider the member’s personal or family circumstances. Each calling should benefit the people who are served, the member, and the member’s family.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Most of the intelligent people in the church have figured out that the leaders are not called by God. The positions are filled the way any other position in any other organization is filled. They get together and find the best person for the job who hasn't said no. It's not rocket science. They just say the person was called of God so they can meet the handbook requirements.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
DarkHelmet wrote:Most of the intelligent people in the church have figured out that the leaders are not called by God. The positions are filled the way any other position in any other organization is filled. They get together and find the best person for the job who hasn't said no. It's not rocket science. They just say the person was called of God so they can meet the handbook requirements.
Yeah this is what I noticed and I think a lot of doubts came from this. When I got called to be a ward clerk and ES I realized it was done this way and it was a little shocking.
DarkHelmet wrote:Most of the intelligent people in the church have figured out that the leaders are not called by God. The positions are filled the way any other position in any other organization is filled. They get together and find the best person for the job who hasn't said no. It's not rocket science. They just say the person was called of God so they can meet the handbook requirements.
Seriously though, what percent of attending chapel Mormons would say that leaders are called by God? I would bet it is over 90%
It is my province to teach to the Church what the doctrine is. It is your province to echo what I say or to remain silent. Bruce R. McConkie
DarkHelmet wrote:As for the question of how an inspired church could allow this , I've had TBMs tell me that maybe those children needed this trial in their life. That's how a screwed in the head some TBMs are.
BS.
The way I worded it makes it sound like I'm talking about this specific case. I haven't talked to anyone about this case. But on many, many occasions through the years, when TBMs have had to reconcile terrible things like this, and how good priesthood holders could do something terrible like molest kids without anyone around him, or any of his leaders, being able to discern it, occasionally someone will throw out the theory that maybe the victim needed to experience it for some reason, and the lord works in mysterious ways. Really, how else do you reconcile it?
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
If the Stake President who appointed this man is ever asked, "How were you inspired of God when you appointed this man bishop?" he'll say:
"He was a good man when I appointed him bishop...he fell aftewards!"
This guy ain't the WORSE Mormon bishops, some of them screw their own daughters, not their adopted daughters. Hell....Joseph Smith screwed his adopted daughters all the time! Fanny Alger, Maria Lawrance, Sarah Lawrence.
This bishop only did what Joseph Smith did before him, although one child was black (YUCK!)! Guess he wanted to teach that little child of Cain a lesson.