Apologetic Argument: Joseph Smith's Man Love

[_Morley]

Brigham Young’s vision of Joseph Smith at Winter Quarters in 1847, as recorded by Hosea Stout:

"This morning there was to be a private meeting of the high Council at sun rise. About 9 o’clock I went & found only three members present so we staid a while and come away home.

"In the afternoon I went to the Council house to a meeting at which Elder Henry G. Sherwood spoke after that I was around as usual At six went to a High Council as usual There was not much done of interest except some remarks of President Young which I will give in short It is in relation to a spell of sickness he had had lately.

"He spoke as follows.

“Another subject which I wanted to speak of is this. On Wednesday morning I was taken ill and it has been asked if I had a vision I was taken so suddenly sick. Just as I was getting out of my bed that I could not go out. I tried to return to the bed again, but could not even get back.

"As to how I felt, No one can tell how I felt, until he dies and goes through the vail and when he does that he can then tell how I felt. All that I know, is what my wife told me about it since. She said that I said, I had been where Joseph & Hyrum was.
And again that I said, it is hard coming to life again.

"But I know that I went to the world of spirits; but what I saw I know not, for the vision went away from me, as a dream which you loose when you awake. The next day I had a dream.

"I dreamed that I saw Joseph sitting in a room, in the South West corner, near a bright window. He sat in a chair, with his feet, both on the lower round. I took him by the hand and kissed him on both cheeks, and wanted to know why we could not be together, as we once was.

"He said that it was all right, that we should not be together yet. We must be separated for a season.

"I said it was hard to be separated from him.

"He said, it was all right and putting his feet down on the floor.

"Now all you who know, how he looks, when he used to give council, know all about, how he looked then. I told him that the Latter Day Saints was very anxious to know about the law of adoption, and the sealing powers &c and desired word of council from him. Joseph said; do you be sure and tell the people one thing.

"Do you be sure and tell the brethren that it is all important for them to keep the spirit of the Lord, To keep the quiet spirit of Jesus, and he explained how the spirit of the Lord reflected on the spirit of man and set him to pondering on any subject, and also explained how to know the spirit of the Lord from the spirit of the enemy.

"He said the mind of man must be open to receive all spirits, in order to be prepared, to receive the spirit of the Lord; otherwise it might be barred so as not to receive the spirit of the Lord, which always brings peace and makes one happy and takes away every other spirit. When the small still voice speaks always receive it, and if the people will do these things, when they come up to the father, all will be as in the beginning, and every person stand as at the first.

"I saw how we were organized before we took tabernacles and every man will be restored to that which he had then, and all will be satisfied.

"After this I turned away & saw Joseph was in the edge of the light; but where I had to go was as midnight darkness. He said I must go back, so I went back in the darkness.

"I want you all to remember my dream for I it is a vision of God and was revealed through the spirit of Joseph.”

Brooks, Jaunita, ed. On the Mormon Frontier: The Diary of Hosea Stout, 1844 – 1861. Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press, 1982. 237-239.

(Emphasis mine.)

[_Corpsegrinder]

I do believe I can add some more evidence to your list, Mr Darth J.

In the Kirtland temple, men would wash naked men in huge bathtubs. We also know that Mopologetics has established that similarity between any two groups of people establishes irrefutable causal connection between those groups. At a minimum those groups engage in the same behaviors for the same reasons. For this reason, I think the Mopologetic community will soon accept the logical conclusion: that the Kirtland temple was a gay bath house.

Indeed, let us not forget that Brother Joseph’s and Brother Brigham’s flavoricious bum love was simply a continuation of the Savior’s injunction to the twelve apostles:

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.”

(John 13:34)

[_moksha]

However, absence of proof is not proof of absence. We can safely maintain belief when facts have not completely ruled out a possibility.

It is a lonely night on a dark road. Mr. Darth J's engine sputters and Mr. Darth looks for the nearest service station only to find a closed sign when he stops.

It is a time of rationing.

There is only so much logic to go around, but tonight in Mr. Darth J's desperation he had an epiphany and discovered an alternative substitute. Tonight Mr. Darth J of Shady Park, Nevada has entered into the Apologetics Zone.

.

[_The Mighty Builder]

Of course Joe Jr. and the Boys engaged in Homosexual relations.

That is what the original temple ceremonies were for, the Washing and Anointing of each other in a Bath House setting. Remember the temple experience originally took all day and into the early morning to perform. There was lots of wine and good food and "lounging" to be had among the attendees. Just like ancient Greek and Roman Bath Houses, man loving was the order of the day.

[_Corpsegrinder]

This helps to explain why the Evangenital Christians persecuted the early Mormoms. Because the Mormons wouldn’t let the Evangenitals into the Kirtland bath house.

[_Darth J]

As we review the mounting evidence in favor of our belief that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were lovers, there are some points we should continue to keep in mind.

One is that faith is evidence. Indeed, it is the evidence for that which is not seen. We have not seen proof that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were lovers, but the mere fact that we believe it is evidence. In other words, our faith in the sexual liaisons between the first two prophets of the Restoration helps supply some of the proof that it happened.

Another precept to ponder is that opponents of this belief tend to see things in limited naturalistic terms, not allowing for the possibility of the divine or supernatural. They tend to argue that educated people, who are familiar with Mormon history, would not entertain a belief in a homosexual tryst between Joseph and Brigham. And yet, education in no way precludes faith in the supernatural. Merely because opponents of this theory reject spiritual proofs does not mean it is not true. Consider the powerful spiritual experience that Morley has shared in this thread:

"I dreamed that I saw Joseph sitting in a room, in the South West corner, near a bright window. He sat in a chair, with his feet, both on the lower round. I took him by the hand and kissed him on both cheeks, and wanted to know why we could not be together, as we once was.

"He said that it was all right, that we should not be together yet. We must be separated for a season.

"I said it was hard to be separated from him.

"He said, it was all right and putting his feet down on the floor.

This vision, which is consistent with the manly, passionate love that Joseph and Brigham had for each other, cannot be disproved by secular scholarship. It is in the realm of faith. And this, along with other mounting evidences, continue to show that opponents of the Joseph and Brigham love affair will find it increasingly difficult to prove that it is not true.

[_Darth J]

All it would have taken is one person, one witness, to come forward and say that Joseph and Brigham never had gay sex. But in all the years in which innumerable opportunities were present, nobody ever did. Not a single person ever denied that Joseph and Brigham were lovers.

Think about that.

[_Shulem]

I am of the faith that homosexual relations between Joseph & Brigham were real and superfantastic! I've felt the Spirit bear witness to me that it's true. My heart has been filled with warmth and peace that is simply beyond description -- even my stake president would be impressed. I know that Joseph Smith loved men. He shared his body with men and Emma too!

Joseph Smith was a lover! Mormonism is all about sex and masturbation!!

Paul O

[_sock puppet]

Were JSJr and BY ever sealed, for dynasty reason?


by the way, Darth J, I am most pleased to see the return of the rightful avatar of Darth J.

[_just me]

I'd say they deserved each other.