The ultimate fate of women in LDS theology

[_KevinSim]

Please quote your source.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that after having gone on hundreds (if not thousands) of endowment sessions, the impression that I have gotten is that men and women are created in the image of both our Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Mother. That's my only source. I hope to do a temple session in the next couple of weeks; I will pay close attention, and let you know what my impression is afterwards.

Please post the last conference talk that had HM as the topic.

How do you go from the observation that no conference talk in anyone's memory has had our Heavenly Mother as a topic to the conclusion that if "we speak of her publicly we're silenced in church"?

There also has been no conference talk that I'm aware of that has had as topic the belief that Latter-day Saints can become deities. Does that mean that if we speak publicly about our potential to become deities, "we're silenced in church"? Or does it just mean what Hinckley said, that he's not aware of us teaching it or emphasizing it?

[_KevinSim]

When was the last time you heard any talk about her? The only thing left is that hymn. I wonder if they'll get rid of that line, too.

I think it would be very unwise to hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

[_just me]

When was the last time you heard any talk about her? The only thing left is that hymn. I wonder if they'll get rid of that line, too.

I think it would be very unwise to hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

I agree. However they did make changes to the last Relief Society/P manual to say "Heavenly Parents" rather than HF and HM. So, she is being de-emphasized even though she has never been emphasized to begin with.

[_harmony]

Please quote your source.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that after having gone on hundreds (if not thousands) of endowment sessions, the impression that I have gotten is that men and women are created in the image of both our Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Mother. That's my only source. I hope to do a temple session in the next couple of weeks; I will pay close attention, and let you know what my impression is afterwards.

Please quote your source. Because unless you have a source for this, you are crosswise of LDS doctrine. (and yes, I've been to the temple numerous times too, and I've never gotten this impression)

Please post the last conference talk that had HM as the topic.

How do you go from the observation that no conference talk in anyone's memory has had our Heavenly Mother as a topic to the conclusion that if "we speak of her publicly we're silenced in church"?

The reason there are no conference talks about HM is because talking about HM in church (where conference talks are quoted all the time) will still get you disciplined.

If you don't' believe that, please document the last conference talk that had HM as the main topic.

There also has been no conference talk that I'm aware of that has had as topic the belief that Latter-day Saints can become deities. Does that mean that if we speak publicly about our potential to become deities, "we're silenced in church"? Or does it just mean what Hinckley said, that he's not aware of us teaching it or emphasizing it?

This is a red herring/derail. Address the concept of HM please. Becoming deities is an entirely different topic.

[_Buffalo]

Please quote your source.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that after having gone on hundreds (if not thousands) of endowment sessions, the impression that I have gotten is that men and women are created in the image of both our Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Mother. That's my only source. I hope to do a temple session in the next couple of weeks; I will pay close attention, and let you know what my impression is afterwards.

Please post the last conference talk that had HM as the topic.

How do you go from the observation that no conference talk in anyone's memory has had our Heavenly Mother as a topic to the conclusion that if "we speak of her publicly we're silenced in church"?

There also has been no conference talk that I'm aware of that has had as topic the belief that Latter-day Saints can become deities. Does that mean that if we speak publicly about our potential to become deities, "we're silenced in church"? Or does it just mean what Hinckley said, that he's not aware of us teaching it or emphasizing it?

It's been a while, but I don't remember any mention of Heavenly Mother in the endowment.

[_Buffalo]

When was the last time you heard any talk about her? The only thing left is that hymn. I wonder if they'll get rid of that line, too.

I think it would be very unwise to hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

I wouldn't hold my breath, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's removed the next time they revise the hymnal. They've revised problematic hymns before.

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois* while the earth lauds his fame.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know "brother Joseph" again.

Chorus:

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


*In recent editions of the LDS hymnbook, "Plead unto heaven" has replaced the words "Stain Illinois."

[_sanjara]

A few thoughts on the destiny of women from James E. Talmage's article "The Eternity of Sex" in Young Woman’s Journal 25 [October 1914]: 600-604):

Woman occupies a position all her own in the eternal economy of the Creator; and in that position she is as truly superior to man as is he to her in his appointed place. Woman shall yet come to her own, exercising her rights and her privileges as a sanctified investiture which none shall dare profane.

When the frailities and imperfections of mortality are left behind, in the glorified state of the blessed hereafter, husband and wife will administer in their respective stations, seeing and understanding alike, and co-operating to the full in the government of their family kingdom. Then shall woman be recompensed in rich measure for all the injustice that womanhood has endured in mortality. Then shall woman reign by Divine right, a queen in the resplendent realm of her glorified state, even as exalted man shall stand, priest and king unto the Most High God. Mortal eye cannot see nor mind comprehend the beauty, glory, and majesty of a righteous woman made perfect in the celestial kingdom of God.

Even as Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh, endured the experiences of mortality, passed the portals of death and became a resurrected Being, so the Father before Him had trodden the same path of progression from manhood to Godhood, and today sits enthroned in the heavens by right of achievement. He is the Eternal Father and with Him, crowned with glory and majesty, is the eternal Mother. They twain are the parents of the spirit-children for whose schooling in the lessons of mortality this earth was framed.

You can find the entire article below.

http://signaturebookslibrary.org/?p=14234

[_MsJack]

When was the last time you heard any talk about her?

http://speeches.BYU.edu/reader/reader.php?id=12982

Sisters, I testify that when you stand in front of your heavenly parents in those royal courts on high and look into Her eyes and behold Her countenance, any question you ever had about the role of women in the kingdom will evaporate into the rich celestial air, because at that moment you will see standing directly in front of you, your divine nature and destiny. I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

[_zeezrom]

...

Then shall woman reign by Divine right, a queen in the resplendent realm of her glorified state, even as exalted man shall stand, priest and king unto the Most High God. Mortal eye cannot see nor mind comprehend the beauty, glory, and majesty of a righteous woman made perfect in the celestial kingdom of God.

I solemnly declare it is happening right now. I declare that Heavenly Father respectfully bows in Her presence. Ever since the coup d'état in 1833, She has reigned in power and justice.

[_Buffalo]

When was the last time you heard any talk about her?

http://speeches.BYU.edu/reader/reader.php?id=12982

Sisters, I testify that when you stand in front of your heavenly parents in those royal courts on high and look into Her eyes and behold Her countenance, any question you ever had about the role of women in the kingdom will evaporate into the rich celestial air, because at that moment you will see standing directly in front of you, your divine nature and destiny. I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Good catch. I don't watch the relief society broadcast.