CES employee resigns

[_MrStakhanovite]

Aristotle, would you be willing to tell a bit of your story? I've enjoyed reading your postings here at MD on current topics, but I don't recall you ever telling your story.

Picket John Larsen until he lets Aristotle onto the podcast to tell his story. I pitched the idea to them a few weeks ago, but haven't heard back on it.

Better hurry before you get scooped by Dehlin, John . . .

[_Yoda]

I listed to all of it today, whilst laying in agony on the couch. I enjoyed it, and I was amused at all the stuff that surprised them (Smith’s polyandry and such) while being active employees for the CES for years, putting the lie to the tired mopologist rant about how apostates never researched their faith.

Why are you in agony?

I was surprised how poorly CES employees are paid.

Why?

At what point do the powers that be realize that CES, or whatever it is called nowadays, is a giant apostasy generator? Maybe not for the kids, who for the most part sleep through the entire process, but for the teachers. I myself checked out of the faith while being slave labor for CES. So did John Dehlin. So did Grant Palmer. So did Ken Clark. So did this guy.

At some point someone is going to realize they can save a bunch of money AND cut back on apostasy by simply getting rid of CES.

You would have seminary students everywhere worshiping you! LOL

I also echo others here. I would love to hear of your experiences working for the CES.

[_mcjathan]

At what point do the powers that be realize that CES, or whatever it is called nowadays, is a giant apostasy generator? Maybe not for the kids, who for the most part sleep through the entire process, but for the teachers. I myself checked out of the faith while being slave labor for CES. So did John Dehlin. So did Grant Palmer. So did Ken Clark. So did this guy.

At some point someone is going to realize they can save a bunch of money AND cut back on apostasy by simply getting rid of CES.

Let me add: In the ward I grew up in (in Ogden, UT), I had a couple of friends who were brothers who went into CES and who also both apostatized. I also consider Grant Palmer to be a good friend and a very good man. So I'm quite interested to hear your story, Aristotle, and how CES played into your story.

[_Quasimodo]

Has anyone listened to this podcast?

http://mormonstories.org/?p=2322

Dear Wife and I are eating chips and salsa with this tonight. Although, Downton Abbey is on at 9 so we are a little conflicted. What to do?

I read an internet post from John McLay a while ago. Very interesting story! I will listen to the pod cast when I have a few minutes.

It's past that decision point now, but I hope you opted for Downton Abby. It was terrific. You can always go back to the pod cast. Downton is definitely a soap opera, but maybe the best soap opera ever written. I have a personal interest in that show so I may be biased.

[_Aristotle Smith]

A clarification. I have never worked as a paid employee of CES. I was an unpaid early morning seminary teacher. That was what I meant by slave labor.

The way it used to work is that there wasn't actually a calling for seminary teacher. You were not called, sustained, nor set apart to do this. You technically reported to CES and received reimbursements through CES. That's why I still considered that I was part of CES for that time period. So, my story is probably not as interesting as people will think it is going to be. From my understanding, this is the same situation as John Dehlin was in when he went through his faith crisis.

[_just me]

A clarification. I have never worked as a paid employee of CES. I was an unpaid early morning seminary teacher. That was what I meant by slave labor.

The way it used to work is that there wasn't actually a calling for seminary teacher. You were not called, sustained, nor set apart to do this. You technically reported to CES and received reimbursements through CES. That's why I still considered that I was part of CES for that time period. So, my story is probably not as interesting as people will think it is going to be. From my understanding, this is the same situation as John Dehlin was in when he went through his faith crisis.

I'm always up for an apostasy story. :D I would especially love to hear how/why you chose your current belief system. I don't ask much. ;)

[_Jason Bourne]

At what point do the powers that be realize that CES, or whatever it is called nowadays, is a giant apostasy generator? Maybe not for the kids, who for the most part sleep through the entire process, but for the teachers. I myself checked out of the faith while being slave labor for CES. So did John Dehlin. So did Grant Palmer. So did Ken Clark. So did this guy.

At some point someone is going to realize they can save a bunch of money AND cut back on apostasy by simply getting rid of CES.

I don't think CES is a giant apostate generator. It is no more than anything else-hobby apologetics, researching on your own, internet message boards and such. Considering the large number of CES employees as well as part time volunteer seminary teachers in wards outside the west the numbers that leave because of CES are really small as a %.

[_Jason Bourne]

A clarification. I have never worked as a paid employee of CES. I was an unpaid early morning seminary teacher. That was what I meant by slave labor.

Slave labor? You could have said no. Someone put a gun to our head or kidnap your children? Do you feel this way about volunteer service where you worship now?

The way it used to work is that there wasn't actually a calling for seminary teacher. You were not called, sustained, nor set apart to do this. You technically reported to CES and received reimbursements through CES. That's why I still considered that I was part of CES for that time period. So, my story is probably not as interesting as people will think it is going to be. From my understanding,

The only difference is now the ward early AM seminary teacher is called and sustained though they still report to the local CES full time employee coordinator. Reimbursements are the same as well. Interestingly almost every volunteer local seminary teacher I know has loved doing it.

this is the same situation as John Dehlin was in when he went through his faith crisis.

Yes you are correct. John decided to be a really good seminary teacher he needed to study and research Church history so he would be better able to teach. As he dug into it that is when things started falling apart.

[_zeezrom]

There are Utah seminary/institute teachers and then there are non-Utah teachers. I think all are part of CES but there is a huge difference between the two. A seminary teacher in Utah is paid and works during release time during the school day. Outside of Utah, the teacher is called to volunteer their time and teach usually early in the morning before school starts.

my wife grew up sacrificing more than I did. She attended early morning seminary (since she grew up outside of Utah) and I had it easy. I had seminary right after English class.

[_Aristotle Smith]

Slave labor? You could have said no. Someone put a gun to our head or kidnap your children? Do you feel this way about volunteer service where you worship now?

Yes, the bishop not only put a gun to my head, he threatened to sodomize me with a broomstick as well.

And no, I don't feel this way about volunteer service at my current church. They generally offer adult sex toys, with lube, as part of their forced sodomization procedures. So, I figure it's all win.

The only difference is now the ward early AM seminary teacher is called and sustained though they still report to the local CES full time employee coordinator. Reimbursements are the same as well. Interestingly almost every volunteer local seminary teacher I know has loved doing it.

Bully for them.

Yes you are correct. John decided to be a really good seminary teacher he needed to study and research Church history so he would be better able to teach. As he dug into it that is when things started falling apart.

I tried to be a good seminary teacher by learning as much about the Old Testament as I could as well. That's when things started falling apart for me. In this respect, as far as can tell, Dehlin's and my story are identical. When I felt I could no longer in honesty teach what I was expected to teach I resigned.