Is Lehi the father of the Polynesians?

[Guest]

ldsfaqs,

You are apparently unaware of the fact that Dr. Southerton is a professional geneticist. He works in Australia at a major and very well regarded facility that is the rough equivalent of a National Laboratory in the US. He has experience in molecular biology and plant genetics. Of his 20 or so peer reviewed publications, he first author on most. He is not a "so-called" expert. He is an expert.

LDS apologists allow their pre-conceived beliefs to guide what passes for their logic and reasoning, and can therefore reach any conclusion necessary to support their unfounded beliefs, regardless of the data. Dr. Southerton, on the other hand, followed the data and made his conclusion based on results of his work and the work of others. And he is eminently qualified to do so. His peer reviewed work demonstrates that his approach to science, his use and interpretation of data, etc., meet the standards set by the international scientific community.

LDS apologists would have you believe that plant and mammalian genetics are very different disciplines, and that a geneticist who works mainly on plants has diminished standing in the human genetics community. This claim comes from a group of folks who couldn't get the main body of their apologetics related findings, theories and claims published in a peer reviewed journal if their lives depended on it.

Genes are genes, whether they are made naturally by plants or animals, or artificially by scientists in the laboratory. They are all composed of the same four nucleotides (adenine, cytosine, guanine and thymine). Genetic sequences of a given configuration, and/or the proteins they code for, work the same, regardless of source. For example human insulin can be made from genes inserted into a strain of bakers yeast. Folks who use insulin from Novo Nordisc, for example, have yeast cells to thank for it. The yeast makes this protein by expressing the gene for human insulin.

So, here is some information that you really need to consider. There are people in this world who know a whole lot more than you think you know about most things. When you attack them and their work and their reputations without having a clue what you are talking about, which usually the case (and always the case when it comes to science), you just make yourself look silly - to everybody. And since you are taking upon yourself the role of an Mormon apologist, you leave behind a less than positive impression of the Church and its people as well.

Please think about it.
_____________

Edited several times to maintain civility.

[_brade]

Ldsfaqs---

In your own words, please explain what you think "genetic drift" is.

lol

[_sock puppet]

Even more importantly, you entirely ignore the SPIRITUAL lineage that is the lineage the Church most oftens teaches, not a "literal" one. Not a single person that I know of generally "literally" believes their Patriarchal Blessing is "literal" in it's lineage expounding. Yet, YOU slim would have us believe that the Prophets have always meant "literal" when teaching Natives of the America's about their lineage and heritage.

So Lehi is the spiritual father of the polynesians, and elohim is not?

[_SteelHead]

Elohim is spiritual grand father. Did you not pay attention to what BY taught?

;)

[_brade]

Yet, YOU slim would have us believe that the Prophets have always meant "literal" when teaching Natives of the America's about their lineage and heritage.

Of note here from the first scan:

YOU native Americans who are called Indians - who are you?..Do you know that your ancestors were once a mighty nation upon the American continent?

Evidences of the great nations of your ancestors have been found on this continent. Much has been learned about your people from studying theses evidences. However, the best source of true information that tells who you are, where you came from, and what you can achieve is found in an important book - the Book of Mormon.

THE Book of Mormon is a history of your people.

Can everyone see all that non-literal, figurative language?

The Book of Mormon tells how your forefathers came from Jerusalem about 600 years before the birth of Jesus Christ.

Don't forget, ldsfaqs, that the 'your' in that statement refers to native Americans who are called Indians.

An account is given of some of your ancestors who built ships and sailed from the American continent with their families, never returning. These people journeyed to the islands of the sea and have lived there ever since.

Remember again, ldsfaqs, that the 'your' in those statement refers to native Americans who are called Indians.





Surely, this official publication of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was looked over and approved by the First Presidency at the time.

[_why me]

Polynesians represent a sizeable and rapidly growing proportion of the Mormon Church in Australia. Of the nations with the highest proportion of Latter-day Saints, six of the top ten are located in Polynesia, including the top four: Tonga (32%), Samoa (25%), American Samoa (25%) and Niue (15%).

I don't think that the people from Polynesia are baptized because they are told that they are decendants of lehi. Rather they are baptized because they feel the spirit working in their lives and can testify to its power. No one to my knowledge wishes to be baptized because of linage. But they are baptized because of the workings of the spirit.

Do you remember your own spiritual promptings when you were a member?

[Guest]

What do feelings at baptism and reasons for being baptized have to do with repeated claims that the Polynesians are descendant from Lehi without an ounce of archaeological or genetic support?

The glory of god is intelligence, now remember the warm fuzzies, turn off your mind and believe in the face of a staggering amount of evidence to the contrary.

[_brade]

Polynesians represent a sizeable and rapidly growing proportion of the Mormon Church in Australia. Of the nations with the highest proportion of Latter-day Saints, six of the top ten are located in Polynesia, including the top four: Tonga (32%), Samoa (25%), American Samoa (25%) and Niue (15%).

I don't think that the people from Polynesia are baptized because they are told that they are decendants of lehi. Rather they are baptized because they feel the spirit working in their lives and can testify to its power. No one to my knowledge wishes to be baptized because of linage. But they are baptized because of the workings of the spirit.

Do you remember your own spiritual promptings when you were a member?

Did I miss something? Why me, will you link or quote somebody asserting that the people from Polynesia are baptized because they are told that they are descendants of Lehi?

[_mcjathan]

LDS "scholars" betray their professionalism, ethics, and ignore important facts in order to make their conclusions.

Fixed that for ya...

[_SteelHead]

Actually, from what I have seen: LDS scholars reach a conclusion, then wrangle fact, mangle scripture, throw prophets under the bus, and besmirch science to make the argument fit the conclusion.