Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

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_tapirrider
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Re: Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

Post by _tapirrider »

bcspace wrote:You might find this article interesting:

Morality and Abstract Thinking - How Africans may differ from Westerners

I am an American who taught philosophy in several African universities from 1976 to 1988, and have lived since that time in South Africa. When I first came to Africa, I knew virtually nothing about the continent or its people, but I began learning quickly. I noticed, for example, that Africans rarely kept promises and saw no need to apologize when they broke them. It was as if they were unaware they had done anything that called for an apology.

It took many years for me to understand why Africans behaved this way but I think I can now explain this and other behavior that characterizes Africa. I believe that morality requires abstract thinking—as does planning for the future—and that a relative deficiency in abstract thinking may explain many things that are typically African.

What follow are not scientific findings. There could be alternative explanations for what I have observed, but my conclusions are drawn from more than 30 years of living among Africans.


Question is, is it racist? What if it's true? Still racist? Is it wrong to notice these things and try to explain them?


Do Mormons read American Renaissance?
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... enaissance
_Morley
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Re: Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

Post by _Morley »

bcspace wrote:
Please elaborate.


There was no mention of the actual substance of the article.


BC, you posted to an article with passages like this:

The failure to keep promises is therefore not a language problem. It is hard to believe that after living with whites for so long they would not learn the correct meaning, and it is too much of a coincidence that the same phenomenon is found in Nigeria, Kenya and Papua New Guinea, where I have also lived. It is much more likely that Africans generally lack the very concept and hence cannot give the word its correct meaning. This would seem to indicate some difference in intellectual capacity.

And:

To the extent people are deficient in such abstract thinking, they will be deficient in moral understanding and hence in human empathy—which is what we tend to find in Africans.

And which closes with:

It should go without saying that my observations about Africans are generalizations. I am not saying that none has the capacity for abstract thought or moral understanding. I am speaking of tendencies and averages, which leave room for many exceptions.

To what extent do my observations about Africans apply to American blacks? American blacks have an average IQ of 85, which is a full 15 points higher than the African average of 70. The capacity for abstract thought is unquestionably correlated with intelligence, and so we can expect American blacks generally to exceed Africans in these respects.

Still, American blacks show many of the traits so striking among Africans: low mathematical ability, diminished abstract reasoning, high crime rates, a short time-horizon, rudeness, littering, etc. If I had lived only among American blacks and not among Africans, I might never have reached the conclusions I have, but the more extreme behavior among Africans makes it easier to perceive the same tendencies among American blacks.




You seem to think this tripe has some validity or application. I admit that I found the article endlessly fascinating in that context.
_Morley
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Re: Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

Post by _Morley »

tapirrider wrote:
Do Mormons read American Renaissance?
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... enaissance

We have evidence that at least one does.
_bcspace
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Re: Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

Post by _bcspace »

We have evidence that at least one does.


Actually I don't. But I did have the link to the article saved in my archives.
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_moksha
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Re: Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

Post by _moksha »

bcspace wrote:Morality and Abstract Thinking - How Africans may differ from Westerners

I am an American who taught philosophy in several African universities from 1976 to 1988, and have lived since that time in South Africa. When I first came to Africa, I knew virtually nothing about the continent or its people, but I began learning quickly. I noticed, for example, that Africans rarely kept promises and saw no need to apologize when they broke them. It was as if they were unaware they had done anything that called for an apology.

It took many years for me to understand why Africans behaved this way but I think I can now explain this and other behavior that characterizes Africa. I believe that morality requires abstract thinking—as does planning for the future—and that a relative deficiency in abstract thinking may explain many things that are typically African.

What follow are not scientific findings. There could be alternative explanations for what I have observed, but my conclusions are drawn from more than 30 years of living among Africans.


Question is, is it racist? What if it's true? Still racist? Is it wrong to notice these things and try to explain them?


Sounds like he could have been speaking about the government in Johannesburg during his 1976-1988 tenure.
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_tapirrider
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Re: Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

Post by _tapirrider »

bcspace wrote:
We have evidence that at least one does.


Actually I don't. But I did have the link to the article saved in my archives.


You might want to save these links in your archives along with that article.

http://www.adl.org/NR/exeres/55F644A0-0 ... meless.htm

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... red-taylor

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/i ... enaissance
_EAllusion
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Re: Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

Post by _EAllusion »

Yes, that article is incredibly racist. Asking what if it is true is like asking "What if Mormons did sacrifice infants in the temple. Would it be bigoted to point it out then?!" Well, no, but there's the rub, isn't it?
_Buffalo
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Re: Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

Post by _Buffalo »

Morley wrote:
BC, I did find your article interesting.

BCSpace’s link is to an article on the website of the American Renaissance Magazine (ARM). ARM was founded and is run by Jared Taylor.

About Jared Taylor, from ADL’s website:


Jared Taylor has used both mainstream and extremist venues, including a cable TV network, universities, radio and conferences, to promote his racist ideas.

Taylor has scheduled the ninth annual American Renaissance conference to be held in Charlotte, North Carolina, February 4-6, 2011. Speakers include a variety of racists from the United States and abroad. As he has with previous conferences, Taylor has invited speakers who focus on the racial divide and race relations and their impact on white culture in the United States, Europe and South Africa.


And

In June 2010, Taylor was one of the keynote speakers at the annual conference of the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens in Nashville, Tennessee.

In 2010, Taylor also made multiple appearances on "The Political Cesspool," a white supremacist Internet radio show run by racist James Edwards.


And

Taylor's portrayal of his racist views as intellectual inquiry enables him to maintain a position as a respectable academic source for racists, many of whom frequently cite his work.


Not surprising. People drawn to homophobic ideas are often also drawn to racism as well.
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_DarkHelmet
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Re: Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

Post by _DarkHelmet »

BCSpace, does your Bishop know you associate with ARM? Doesn't that fall under the category of associating with groups that are contrary to the church? Or maybe ARM doesn't fall into that category.
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_Morley
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Re: Robert E. Lee's opinion on slavery

Post by _Morley »

bcspace wrote:
Holy s***, BC. Please tell me you don't take that guy seriously.


I don't necessarily. But the mention of Robert E. Lee's feelings of the time reminded me of it. It sounds perfectly reasonable. It may even be true culturally. But is it true inherently? Probably not. At least I hope not.

I've had the opportunity to mingle for long periods of time with African blacks as well as American "ghetto" blacks and more educated and "Americanized" blacks and maintain friendships in all groups. Even dated a couple of black girls back in the 80's (no, not at the same time). There is at least some cultural truth in the article and I believe many of my friends from those groups would agree based on what they've said to me before.

I'm getting the "I'm not racist because I have black friends" vibe. Is that a misinterpretation?
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