liz3564 wrote:Today's Mormonism is very different from the Mormonism during the Brigham Young era, which, in my opinion, was extremely abusive.
Why is it different? Did God screw things up in the beginning when he instructed Joseph Smith to practice polygamy? Did God make a mistake by banning black men from holding the priesthood? Was the "most perfect book ever written" incorrect in using "White and delightsome" vs. dark and loathsome?
liz3564 wrote:If you look at how the Church is practiced today, particularly, how it is practiced in states other than Utah, you will find it a pretty mainstreamed Church. It is far from being Unitarian in nature, but it does closely resemble other branches of Judeo-Christianity.
There isn't one Christian church that places faith in Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, nor the doctrine of Joseph Smith as true. Christians don't believe in Joseph Smith's truth claims to include supposed extra doctrine from Jesus Christ. Christians don't wear magical Masonic jammies. Christians don't believe in Mormon temple rituals, Mormon theology, nor the revised Bible of Joseph Smith. You can keep trying to pound the square peg in the round hole, but Christianity rejects the doctrine of Joseph Smith as that of a false prophet of God. The only religion to accept the doctrine of Joseph Smith are LDS.. they are not in any way, shape, or form the same.
liz3564 wrote:I think that is, actually, why there is such a problem with members who discover the history of the Church of the past. It is a Church they don't recognize. Even the temple ceremonies have changed significantly.
That's because it had to change, and that's because it's not true. The truth is held from LDS members, because 14 year old bride of Joseph Smith and magic rocks placed in a hat don't bode well for his truth claims.
liz3564 wrote:For those who did experience a more radical difference with the LDS Church, there is a difficulty in adjustment to the current LDS Church.
If God really did threaten Joseph Smith with a sword for failing to practice polygamy, then so should you if you believe Joseph Smith to be a prophet of God. If the doctrine of Joseph Smith is true, and you reject polygamy in heaven, then you will be damned.
http://institute.LDS.org/manuals/doctri ... 31-132.aspD&C 132:3–6 . “If Ye Abide Not That Covenant, Then Are Ye Damned”
The “new and everlasting covenant” ( D&C 132:4 ) is the covenant of celestial marriage, as President Spencer W. Kimball stated: “Though relatively few people in this world understand it, the new and everlasting covenant is the marriage ordinance in the holy temple by the properly constituted leaders who hold the genuine, authoritative keys. This glorious blessing is available to men and women on this earth.” ( “Temples and Eternal Marriage,” Ensign, Aug. 1974, p. 5 .)
One can sense the importance of accepting the covenant from the number of times the Lord repeats this warning:
“All who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same” ( D&C 132:3 ).
“If ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned” ( v. 4 ).
“No one can reject this covenant and . . . enter into my glory” ( v. 4 ).
“All who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law” ( v. 5 ).
“He that receiveth a fulness [of my glory] must and shall abide the law” ( v. 6 ).
President Kimball stressed how the Saints should view this commandment (see Notes and Commentary for D&C 131:4 ). Those who reject this covenant cannot progress eternally because they do not inherit the blessings of eternal increase.
liz3564 wrote:I know that BC is going to fight me on this, and say that the Church is the same, but it isn't. The core doctrine is the same. But that core doctrine exists in MANY Christian branches. Yes, the stranger tenets still exist, but they have been massively de-emphasized. What we are left with is a Christian sect where members don't drink, smoke, drink coffee or tea, who hold voluntary callings revolving around service, and have regular opportunities to give sermons in their Church services. As someone who lives in the Bible belt, this is hardly recognized as "peculiar", except for the lack of tea consumption. ;-)
(Sweet tea is the favorite drink of choice at most social functions here in the South.)
Note how you claim the "core doctrine" exists in many "Christian" branches... that isn't true. The "core doctrine" is used only by LDS (or Mormon) churches. It's like the bogus writings of BC or ldsfaqs as they claim they actually made a point in an argument when they simply left after being painted in a corner. Does repeating the same untruth multiple times make a point? What part of Christianity rejecting Joseph Smith as a false prophet of God is so difficult to understand?
liz3564 wrote:The emphasis of the modern Church is on family, and family values. Overall, I see this as a positive.
I'll give you that, but at the expense of following a false prophet it hardly balances the scales.
liz3564 wrote:And, sorry to disappoint you, TBM's, but NOM is the new flavor of the month. More members practice Mormonism from a NOM perspective, which I also don't see as a bad thing. As a NOM, I am actually probably more committed to the Church than I was as a TBM. I just channel my energy into Church activities which are most beneficial to me, and to my family.
I just don't get this mindset. On one hand you have to change what you claim to believe because you don't, then on the other you claim to be committed to it. Committed to what? A false prophet of God? I get the NOM perspective of playing along to keep your family together, but that perspective is based on honesty, because it doesn't require finding some way to also claim you believe in what you know to be false.
Tell me Liz, are you going to reject polygamy in heaven and are therefore damned? Will you change your mind when you get there and share your husband with his multiple wives? Is there some sort of NOM loophole where
you get to decide which parts of Joseph Smith's doctrine is true and which are false?
http://biblelight.net/false-prophets.htmMat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity [lawlessness].
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.
2 Tim 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth & turn aside to myths