Why Intellectuals Cannot Become REAL Christians

[_Some Schmo]

I have come to realize that I'm the only true Christian on this site. In the words of Emo Phillips:

When I was a kid, I used to pray every night for a new bike. Then I realised, the Lord doesn't work that way. So I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me.

This is what I'm talking about. Unless you embrace sin, you're basically wasting Jesus' sacrifice.

[_Stormy Waters]

You premises are more a construct to enclose God in parameters of your choosing to limit him and box him in to your will. That makes you a brat. You get to decide IF he is a good parent or not. That gives you too much power. Could you saunter into a chem lab and dictate terms like this and expect a good grade for it? Hello!

I'm speculating on the nature of God, I'm not trying to limit him. The Bible states that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." I don't think God is a hot babe we need to woo, but according to John 3:16 he is a loving God who wants to save us.

But having said that I noted with interest that intellectuals look down on Christ and dismiss him and his gospel because they fail to comprehend it. Makes some sense since they DO comprehend everything else. So if Christianity was comprehensible certainly they would see it. They do not see it at all. Therefore they have a long tradition of disdain that the wannabees clamor all over to try and sound just like their great heroes.

The gospel is purposefully kept oblique to the intellect demanding that one come at it another way other than how other things are learned. This that it might require a sacrifice of will, a crest fallen humility of a fool or little child who knows nothing first before one could even begin to be drawn into the kingdom of God. Like a birth canal.

I struggle with why God would operate in this fashion. Why make the gospel oblique to the intellect? I think there are better ways to require humility than require us to sacrifice our intellectual processes. Also, what becomes of those who cannot overcome their intellects?

Edited for clarity.

[_Stormy Waters]

My current reading of the old Testament is making me think less and less of "god" in this fashion. The super anthropomorphism of Mormonism is hard to shake...

Then how do you think of him? I'm not sure how I could relate to God without some degree of anthropomorphism.

[_Nightlion]

I struggle with why God would operate in this fashion. Why make the gospel oblique to the intellect? I think there are better ways to require humility than to undercut our intellectual processes. Also, what becomes of those who cannot overcome their intellects?

Satan too thought there were better ways. Look what that got him. God commands all eternity to obey his acts of creation and watches to see IF he is obeyed. Nothing his hands have made proves more unwieldy than the ego of man Why bother with man at all? I suppose he enjoys the infinite challenge of it all. To save some. Few. Nothing with God is impossible. Nearly, but not altogether so. And with man in his saved and or exalted state God enjoys the greatest felicity and man by knowing God all the more perfectly is filled with the greatest possible joy.

Those who fail come back again in another roll of eternity to try, try again. The law of the conservation of intelligence kicks in. It cannot be made neither can it be destroyed, yet it may suffer the loss of that which is added unto it which can be taken away as it returns to its native state from whence it was originally called into independence existence by the command of God the Eternal Father. Thereby he fathers that which is eternal. Not just that of man but all of his creations are given the sphere of their existence by the gift of the relevant knowledge thereof. All things.Everything made claims the right of kinship with their Eternal Father. Man thinks himself uniquely special. I doubt that all the creatures who continue to enjoy their felicity with God's love think man in his wickedness is special. Fools and slow to believe. The very cockroaches, algae and fungus do better than the majority of man, worlds without end.

Perhaps a slight exaggeration for emphasis. Not much. Only a little. Muy poco,

[_Nightlion]

I struggle with why God would operate in this fashion. Why make the gospel oblique to the intellect? I think there are better ways to require humility than require us to sacrifice our intellectual processes. Also, what becomes of those who cannot overcome their intellects?

Edited for clarity.

Redux for clarity.
You go to far to charge a sacrifice of intellectual processes. It is pride and unbridled arrogance that fights against God which great intellectual development enhances that must be sacrificed. You will only succeed in the distillation of your pride unto a rendering of meekness by great and ponderous thoughts, yearning to feel after the will of God. God is casting lots in a sort of crap shoot to see if giving great intellect to man can produce willful contrition instead of vain villainy. It supposes me that it is somehow worth the gamble seeing how he is willing to go all in by way of Jesus Christ's suffering. (I know that you do not go all in on a crap table. That is poker, Texas Holdem Poker to be exact. Thanks)

[_Tarski]

And with God you must become the most adorable of infants in your heart,

You know that some people who get brain damage become irritable jerks and maybe even violent.

On the other hand, depending on what part of the brain gets messed up, one could become like a sweet smiling child and perhaps no longer capable of much intellect either.

Maybe if I got just the right kind of brain damage then God would love me.

But no matter how I reached my childlike humility and deintellectualization, why would I think to turn to Jesus instead of Buddha or just to the one God Allah? Maybe in my humility I would listen to Nighlion but maybe, depending on where I lived, I might listen to Nightlion's islamic counterpart whereever he may be.

There I would be in all my wide eyed humble stupidity with a thousand different preachers, prophets, and wisemen shouting at me that if I were only more childlike then I could see that what they were preaching was the one true way.


Maybe in my humility I would decide that I had no idea if God even existed.

[_moksha]

This makes me think back to that Leonard Cohen song, Suzanne, where Jesus sank beneath our wisdom like a stone, but as the song said, "And when he knew for certain only drowning men could see him, He said 'All men will be sailors then Until the sea shall free them'".

The Sea of Faith cannot be found on known maps.

[_Nightlion]

And with God you must become the most adorable of infants in your heart,

You know that some people who get brain damage become irritable jerks and maybe even violent.

On the other hand, depending on what part of the brain gets messed up, one could become like a sweet smiling child and perhaps no longer capable of much intellect either.

Maybe if I got just the right kind of brain damage then God would love me.

But no matter how I reached my childlike humility and deintellectualization, why would I think to turn to Jesus instead of Buddha or just to the one God Allah? Maybe in my humility I would listen to Nighlion but maybe, depending on where I lived, I might listen to Nightlion's islamic counterpart whereever he may be.

There I would be in all my wide eyed humble stupidity with a thousand different preachers, prophets, and wisemen shouting at me that if I were only more childlike then I could see that what they were preaching was the one true way.


Maybe in my humility I would decide that I had no idea if God even existed.

No you are simply game changing. Those who feel after God in meekness that will capture the attention of Very God regardless of their pre-conditioned considerations of who God is, will be led in their mental distillations to come unto Christ alone.

You are betting God does not even exist. I am knowing that he does. Hindus and Buddhists who torture themselves with years of excruciating meditations until their minds snap to answer all their thoughts of transcendence may finally get that delusion so viciously craved so a body can take a break. That is not religion. It is forced quackery that does not forbid the welcoming of evil spirits to tantalize them all the more. Western disciplines command a group euphoria by forces more militant and external, mostly social trickery of each believing themselves fundamentally correct in their various groups, reinforced by group worship. Also all false. All forced all false.

The only true religion is of course the one in which God participates. Being drawn unto Christ is the only way that maintains perfect respect for free will. It is so rare that millions reading of it daily fail to see it. It will be shown to those whom God calls. None else. Tarski, do you ever read what I write?
So what and if many beat their heads against the wall in consternation against the evidence that this true religion actually does exist. Oh well.

[_Tarski]

Those who feel after God in meekness that will capture the attention of Very God regardless of their pre-conditioned considerations of who God is, will be led in their mental distillations to come unto Christ alone.

You say this.
I don't see any reason to think it is true. Humans have existed for 150 million years. During most of that time, the name of Jesus was unknown. Being a meek "caveman" would not have made the story of baby Jesus or Jesus on the cross just pop into their mind (it seems it didn't in fact).
Unless perhaps you mean something else by "coming unto Christ alone" that doesn't even entail knowing anything about Christ's ressurection and atonement.

If I give examples of meek God seeking humans who didn't come to Christ, you will probably just fall into the "true Scottsman" fallacy and tell me they weren't really meek.

[_huckelberry]

I'm speculating on the nature of God, I'm not trying to limit him. The Bible states that "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." I don't think God is a hot babe we need to woo, but according to John 3:16 he is a loving God who wants to save us.

I struggle with why God would operate in this fashion. Why make the gospel oblique to the intellect? I think there are better ways to require humility than require us to sacrifice our intellectual processes. Also, what becomes of those who cannot overcome their intellects?

Stormy Waters, Nightlions comparison of God to a hot babe is way outside of the usual image. Your image is normal and I hardly think there is anything wrong with seeing God as caring. Speaking for myself after being set back three steps by Nightlions comparision I felt he hit the nail on the head. Of course it is not a complete image but I suspect it highlights something often missed. It is a real clue to how our making prenupt demands upon God is a bit silly.

I do not exactly agree with Nightlions comment about intellectuals. Perhaps it was good rhetoric focusing on the problem of self centered pride. I think humans of all different dimensions of intellectual interest, abilities, or pretensions have exactly the same problem with faith, the one Nightlion points out rather well. What I see is that the solution is not getting rid of your intellect. I do not believe that would help towards faith or humility at all. I am not aware of any scriptural instructions to sacrifice intellect.